1403: The Pests part 3

Speaker: The episode that you're about to hear is part three, and if you haven't listened to the first two, I'd suggest you start there. And also, if you don't like, you know, lots of language and really dark topics, this one's not for you. so you've been warned. All right, let's play the episode for the past five years, Patrick Tomlinson and his wife Nikki, have been living a complete nightmare. The Milwaukee police have swatted their house more than 40 times, But eventually the swatting wasn't funny enough for these pests

Patrick: we've, we've come to find out that it's not just the swatting, there have been at least half a dozen, uh, bomb threats that were called in by our stalkers that we know about. Um, you, there was a December 10th of last year, there was a, uh, uh, Patty LaBelle was performing at the Riverside Theater here in Milwaukee.

Speaker: Patty LaBelle's security staff rushed her off the stage because someone called in a bomb threat using Patrick's name. What, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzg589Zx0y0)

Patrick: And it made national news because she got two songs in and then she was rushed off the stage because of a bomb threat. 2000 people were evacuated, like six blocks in downtown Milwaukee were shut down. we came to find out later that night because, because we'd already been swatted twice that day. Well, police came out a third time at

Niki: midnight. I developed P T S D after this particular day because it was just like, it was insane. It was one thing after other, it was so insane. They shut off our, like sometimes they'll call for a gas leak too, so I mean, they shut off our gas in the middle of winter. So I'm like trying to get the gas turned on. The police are there like earlier. Then later this detective shows up and like at, I mean it was, and this, so

Patrick: this detective shows up at like midnight that night after we'd already had cops out to the house twice that day. Wakes us up again and I'm like, guys, you have to stop coming out here. You're, this is insane. This is ridiculous. He's like, it's, it's not, it's not that This time you may have heard about the riverside getting evacuated. Well they used your name in that call.

Niki: The feud between Patrick and the Pest is not showing any signs of slowing down. Today we're gonna try to answer the question, who are these guys and what do they want?

Speaker: I'm Javier Lava, and this is Pretend Stories about real people pretending to be someone else.

Patrick: They've gone after Patrick Nikki, even Patty LaBelle was tangled up in this mess. and then they, they made a bomb threat last April against a hotel or where, uh, that was hosting a convention that I was speaking at. They did that to disrupt. That was Detroit. That was Detroit. Yeah, Detroit. Uh, they did that to disrupt the convention. their bomb sniffing dogs had to come out for that one. Um, just, just a few weeks ago on the Brewer's home opener, they called in a bomb threat, uh, a few hours after the game is over because we go to the home opener every year. So they

Niki: call, there's just a lot of things that they know about us too that we can't, I mean, we go to, we go to the Brewer's opening day every year. It's like my favorite holiday.

Speaker: HOW DOES THIS END?

Javier: How does this end?

Patrick: with us dead or then in prison, it doesn't end any other way. They

Niki: think that they're untouchable because it's gone on so long. They've just been more and more invigorated, you know, to do more the more they get away with.

Patrick: So like the, and at every step of the way, whenever we've reached out for help through to, through law enforcement, through the justice system, they have been rewarded. Yep.

Speaker: Javier: WHY GO PUBLIC?

Javier: Like I know why you're going public. Like I get it because like even your Twitter says, well, silence didn't work, so now we're going public. And I get it, you know? But I also kind of see this as like, oh no, here we go again. You know? It's

Patrick: They want us to suffer

Javier: are we rewarding them?

Patrick: They, they want us to suffer in silence. And the only, the only way they want to isolate us, they, they want to, they wanna take us out off the playing field. And no, the only way to, to solve this is to, is to engage with the public, educate the public, and bring more

Niki: pressure. And we have to, because our situation is on the extreme side of things, but people, there are, they are doing this to lots of other people who have no recourse. No, I mean like, Yeah, no platform. I mean, they, and they go after like black people, trans people, whatever, and they'll go after young people who are just like, you know, like a black artist who's out on Twitter trying to like share their work and they'll just mass report them into oblivion and they'll never be able to do what they want to do on the internet with their work because they destroy their chance at doing it. I well, two weeks ago, um, two and a half weeks ago, we got swatted seven times in 36 hours. Um, and two of those police responses were violent. one was, uh, assault rifles. I was home alone and we have this extensive security system we've spent thousands of dollars on because of this. And I couldn't see them on the cameras. So I'm calling him like, I can't see them. Are they here? Cuz all I can see is this flashlight. And they had banged on the door and he's like, yeah, they're here, they have guns. I'm trying to talk to them through the camera and I'm like, I'm coming down, it's fine. And I have to come down with my hands up. And then like the next morning, a different sergeant tried to kick in our door because we refused to come down and come out.

Javier: Has anybody actually kicked through your door?

Speaker: cops: no, but they tried to. No, but they have illegal searched our house like a number of times No, you're not coming in. You are absolutely not coming in. Have your

Patrick: wife

Speaker: cops: come down here. Your My wife is fine. You already saw her. You already talked to her. cops: We need to talk to you. We need to talk to your wife. No, you don't. Do not have problem. Need to talk to your wife. You do not. You do not have

Patrick: problem. You saw me. You saw me. I'm right here and I'm fine. Get the fuck outta here. I'm fine. No, she's not. I'm fine. She is not coming

Speaker: cops: out. You do not have a, you are not. cops: She is not coming out. You do not have a warrant. You do not have probable cause. You don't,

Patrick: you don't have probable cause because you know the call is fucking fake. This sergeant who, the following day, the following morning, attempted to break our door down. He'd been at the house like three weeks earlier. He knew the situation. He'd already talked to Nikki. Yeah. He knew we were being swatted and he just, he came up again and was like, open the door. I'm kick, I'm gonna kick it down. I have, you know, I have to search the place. I'm like, no, don't have probable cause you don't have a warrant. You know, this situation is bogus. You're not entering our

Niki: fucking house. Yeah.

Speaker: WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

Javier: So is this one harasser? Are there hundreds of harassers? There's really no way of knowing, but Patrick says that he's narrowed it down to a handful of people, including the man that they believe runs a forum.

Niki: The idea was to bring a lawsuit to identify who they are, and then we sue them civilly because of DEF Defamation and everything

Patrick: else, or, or even turn them over to their local law enforcement so that they could face criminal charges, right? Because we were literally told by law enforcement, it's like, well, without names we can't do anything. So we went out to try and do their fucking jobs for them and get names of these people.

Speaker: And that's what they did in 2021. Patrick and his wife Nikki, filed the lawsuit in order to subpoena the business and the production records of the online form. If they have those records, they can unmask the identities of the users who are hiding behind an anonymous accounts, but they ran into a wall, and that wall is titled the Communications Decency Act, section two 30. Section two 30 is a law that protects internet platforms like Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, from liability, from content published by its users. I mean, can you imagine if you could sue Facebook every time you got your feelings hurt? But you know, it's more than that because people do use these platforms to intimidate and harass other users offline. Careers could be ruined just like that after a Twitter mob attacks your reputation. But if anyone could sue these social media platforms for any reason, these companies would constantly be in court and they wouldn't survive. We wouldn't have social media.

Patrick: But because of Section two 30 out in California and because of a pair of incredibly incompetent and stupid judges, um, they found that, uh, that that quasi was running a website just like Facebook or Twitter.

Javier: So they're not responsible. for the content,

Niki: Even though he's a though, he willing participant,

Patrick: active participant, and even though he, oh, he runs the website through, uh, CloudFlare and, and bases it here in the US specifically because doxing isn't illegal here. It is illegal in, in the eu. Doxing is

Niki: illegal in Russia. Figure that out. Yeah. Like

Patrick: they had, they had, they had their host, they were hosted in Russia for a while until we reported them for doxing and then the Russian host booted them. So then they had to come back here and they like, and he's, we have screen grabs him saying, no, I put this website here and, and it's being hosted here so you guys can keep doxing Patrick and everyone around him There are exceptions to section two 30

Speaker: The website owners could be held liable in certain situations. For example, if the website owner actively participates or encourages the harassment, they could be held responsible. Additionally, if like the website owner fails to take appropriate action after being notified about the harassment content, they could also face some potential liability. But according to Patrick, the website's owner is not just running the form. Patrick claims he's one of the main harassers. you know, there does seem to be some sort of effort to moderate the harassment. Just recently, one of its most prominent users was booted off the form from making explicit threats towards Patrick. These guys eat their own. There's also a ridiculous

Javier: disclaimer claimer on the site, I'll read it to you. This forum is dedicated exclusively to parody comedy and satirical content. None of the statements, opinions, or depictions shared on this platform should be considered or treated as factual information under any circumstances. All the content is intended for entertainment purposes only, and should be regarded as fictional, exaggerated, and purely the result of personal opinions and creative expression. If any of the discussion on this platform triggers distressing emotions or thoughts, please leave immediately and consider seeking assistance. They even link to the National Suicide Prevention Hotline. Hmm, brother. Long story short, because of Section two 30, Patrick Tomlinson lost the case.

Niki: So essentially the judge decided that because of section two 30, their non amenity is more important than our physical safety and wellbeing and livelihood and everything else.

Javier: The court also ruled that Patrick Tomlinson has to pay the website owner's legals fees. Could you believe that?

Niki: to the tune of like 40 K. So now,

Patrick: we have a $40,000

Niki: bill,

Javier: But you haven't, you have not been able to identify. The person who owns that site,

Niki: no, no,

Patrick: We've, we have the identities of one and possibly two of these people. one we know for sure his name is He uses

Niki: his real name on everything. He wants to be like,

Patrick: he thinks this is his, his, he, he runs a, he ran a podcast. Podcast. He wants the attention about us. Yeah. Just, he ran a, literally ran a podcast dedicated to stalking us. actually the same day that, that, that, that huge pile of mulch was, was dropped in our backyard trying to block our car in. he flew to Milwaukee. And came to our house. He took spy shots of me from across the street while hiding behind a truck. Um, then he walked down our sidewalk and filmed the front of our, filmed the front of our house. He went, when he went home, he took the, the footage of him, uh, in front of our house, put it on YouTube and set it to the song. Somebody's watching me. I mean, he's out there. Well,

Niki: and,

Patrick: and it got, it was even stranger because once, once he knew where I was, once he knew I was home, he went up to the street to that, to the bar that we had talked about, the one that had the fire, because he knows that we go there all the time. And he sat there for half an hour live streaming himself, sitting and talking to a pair of crocheted voodoo dolls, representing my ex-wife and her late

Niki: husband. He wants to think he's like the ring leader in that he's really important, but I think he wants to be famous for any reason at all.

Patrick: like, and the, the judge pro teme and that in our, uh, lawsuit case, had he come right out and said during hearings that yes, you, your like, defamation is happening on this site. Yes. You're they're being stalked. Yes, they're being harassed. Like we had all the evidence, you know, proving our case, but it was just be, it was just because of, uh, them mis technicality, the technicality of section two 30. Did they not only get away with everything without any sort of consequences, but the, but then the justice justice system stuck us with a $40,000 bill. So now we're paying, we have a subscription fee for being stalked by these people

Niki: now. Yeah. Because now we had to march as the debt editor, chapter 1 28 in Wisconsin and we. We'll have to pay a monthly stipend to them to be sucked.

Javier: Where are these payments going to, if you don't even know the identity

Niki: They go to him, but they go through his lawyer. Yep,

Javier: So what's the real reason that these pests go after Patrick Tomlinson? We'll discuss after the break

Speaker: Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: my name is Eric Hilman. I started the Milwaukee Science Fiction and Fantasy League, uh, around, uh, the end of 2000, Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: so around, uh, let's see, January of 2022, that's when I became aware of the, uh, Patrick Tomlinson situation. there was a. Article that came out Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: had this headline, Milwaukee science fiction writer loses in court, uh, or something to that effect. And I was like, wait, Milwaukee science fiction writer, who are they talking about? Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: When Eric Hilderman realized that Tomlinson was being attacked by internet trolls on this opiate Anthony form, he decided to jump in and defend Patrick Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Most of the people are there just for laughs. You know, getting laughs at other people's expense, you know, that's how the free speech cookie crumbles. That's fine. Okay. But it's where it goes beyond laughs that, know, it kind of stops being funny. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: The trolls started coming after me because heaven forbid Patrick had another friend. They, they absolutely can't stand that. So they, uh, Uh, targeted my website, started posting a whole bunch of like, you know, nonsense crap on there. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: but they also found my parents' ary websites and, uh, immediately posted a whole bunch of, uh, lewd, you know, uh, graffiti like posts on there. And yeah. I see you're shaking your head like that. You, you just gotta think like how evil you have to be to do Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: I don't get it. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: I mean, You know, this is something that I'm an, I'm an atheist in. I regard that's sacred and these don't get it. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: But why, why do you wanna get in this, in this mess to begin with? Like why? Why get involved? They didn't even know about Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: build up, if I'm gonna build up science fiction in Milwaukee, the situation is right now that Patrick Tomlinson is one of the most prominent guys out there. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: But do you think that he. Eggs him on. Do you think that maybe he's Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: He is a self-described rabble rouser. This is very true, and he says a lot of things that are acerbic, uh, and, and acidic even. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: I feel like he's a caricature of everything that the alt-right hates about liberals. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Yeah. Okay. That's, that's one way I'm looking at it. Um, but for, for people to say that, you know, he eggs them on or, you know, he always rises to the bath, therefore he makes us do it. That's pretty much exactly the same logic that a rapist used about, oh, she was dressed scantily, so she was asking for it. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: No, no. You're still a rapist. You're still a hundred percent to blame. Own it. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: That's how I feel. I, I, I think that no matter how, Public and, and abrasive Patrick could be about all this. there's nothing that he could say that makes him deserve the harassment and the barrage of, of threats that that has come towards him Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: but I mean, bar barrage or not, if it was just words, okay, then it would be a war of words going back and forth on, you know, a social media site. And that's just the way the free speech cookie crumbles. But it goes much beyond that, of course, because people have swatted him. People have, uh, Impersonated him online and posted stuff to other people's websites in his name in order to defame him. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: You know, they have, uh, gone after his friends. You know, as soon as I appeared on the scene, they went after me. They've gone after his family members. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: You were kind of defending not only Patrick as a sci-fi writer, but really like the sci-fi community and in area, but, uh, I, part of me thinks that you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Right. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: A little bit. Um, there was a time when I actually did a, uh, an email debate with one of them. Patrick warned me not to do it. Uh, he was very adamant about it and I felt I knew what I was doing and plunged into it anyway

Javier: Eric Hilderman was not only defending Patrick Tomlinson, he was defending the whole sci-fi community in Milwaukee as a whole. But why the But why the sci-fi community? the pests believed that the science fiction and Fantasy Writers Association is a haven for pedophilia. I'll let John de LaRose explain.

Jon Del Arroz: Patrick s Tomlinson is one of the biggest law cows on the internet. He is a SWA member, A S J W, science fiction writer who's been making failed books for a number of years, and he loves to go harassed conservatives on the internet and then claimed that he's been harassed when he gets some retaliation for it.

Javier: De LaRose is a YouTuber and science fiction writer

Jon Del Arroz: I sell more books than Patrick s Tomlinson confirmed, uh, because people like it. I don't put any s j w nonsense in there. I don't put any L G B T Q I A, what the fuck into my books. I just put good quality stories that are fun.

Javier: de LaRose has some advice for Tomlinson.

Jon Del Arroz: Patrick Tomlinson has a habit of tweeting the same thing over and over and over again. He loves to reply to people on Twitter, and that's exactly why they come at him. If you don't know how to deal with trolls on the internet, uh, the best way to do so is not to just keep replying to the trolls with something like this. Oh my God. They think that they can get away with just, uh, taking down free speech. They think they can get away with harassing conservatives, right-Wingers and Christians out of the

Speaker: Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: so the argument is because you're defending the science fiction community, ag against pedophilia, that that you must be a pedophilia. Sympathizer, right? Like that's the logic. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: That's their, that's their strange and twisted logic. Yes, there's zero evidence to support that whatsoever. But if I say something positive about, say for example, Samuel R. Delaney, oh, well then at the very least I'm a pet defender and so forth.

Javier: Samuel Delaney is a prominent science fiction author, but to the past he's much more than that. They consider him a dangerous pedophilia Sympathizer.

Speaker: Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Was Delaney a pedophile? Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: just Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: he said some statements in favor of an organization called Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Nala

Javier: Nambla is the North American man, boy love association. This organization is exactly what it sounds like. Grown men who actively campaign to have sexual relations with minors.

Speaker: Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: And uh, he did that back in the nineties. He himself never belonged to the organization, but he said some things in support of its newsletter, which he said was very intelligent and intellectual for the time. And since then, he has never backtracked from that. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: And the reason he never backtracked from that is because he. Uh, was actually, uh, molested himself as a young boy, but because he's gay, he didn't find the experience traumatic. And so now he refuses to characterize it as abuse and refuses to, you know, rescind his statement about an abla. Now I find that fucked up, pardon my French, but that is the reality of it. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Well, that is the one living example that they really have of, uh, pedophilia and science fiction. There's, only a few other examples. Marion Zimmer Bradley was considered, uh, one of the. capstones of fantasy writing, and she has, uh, her, her armor has dimmed since Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: she and her, uh, husband, uh, famous, uh, coin collector named Walter Breen. they. really were abusive to their daughter, Moira Greyland. And she wrote it all in a tell-all book. And for the record, I side with Moira. Okay. What, what she went through is, you know, unforgivable. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: And, uh, the only other example that they're able to say, uh, cite is somebody named, uh, uh, uh, Kramer, ed Kramer. And, uh, he was one of the founders of Dragon Con. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: And, uh, he was, uh, uh, known to be a, a pedophile. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: But, but I mean, okay, so you have some rotten apples in in the community, right? Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: they they wanna, you know, uh, basically condemn a community of hundreds of thousands for these four examples. Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: kind of like that you could say in Catholicism, there's, there's some bad actors. There's, in comedy, there's some bad actors in Hollywood, there's some bad actors. That doesn't mean that the whole industry is, uh, an a child predator industry, right? Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Oh yeah.

Javier: don't know if any of the pests really are motivated by this pedophilia claim. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. it seems to me that this issue is just used to justify the harassment. But listen, it doesn't matter because as vile and racists as the Opie and Anthony forms are, it's their constitutional right to talk garbage. But free speech can only get you so far. Their freedom of speech doesn't give them the right to send the cops to someone's front door. That's harassment and a waste of our tax dollars. But like Patrick said, swatting isn't illegal in the us but why has it become such a big problem? Well, let's follow the money. So, Vice Magazine. Recently published an incredible article, signalling out a messaging app called Telegram. In this app, there's a user known as Tour Squads for just $75. This user will call in a school bomb or a mass shooting threat, and for $50 tour, SWAT can send the cops to your target's house and have the cops handcuff them and search their homes. Think of it as swatting as a service.

Patrick: There's this criminal out there that goes by tour swats who for 50 or 75 bucks a pop will swat people for you. So, um, and it turns out that he was the one who for at least the last 10 months, has been swatting us constantly. But it's because our stalkers are paying him to, to the tune of a couple thousand dollars, at least at this point. Um, and he's also probably the one that's been making the bomb threats, although we don't have confirmation of that yet. And on top of that, it turns out that, TA swats. Was under the impression that we, me in particular, was paying him to swat us ourselves.

Niki: So they were impersonating.

Patrick: So they, they impersonated me. They set up a, a telegram account under my name. They opened a, a crypto wallet through Gemini in my name and had been paying him in crypto coins to swat us while pretending to be me. And he thinks, and he thinks that it's

Niki: like insultingly cheap.

Javier: Yeah. For $75, $50. I mean, come on. That's ridiculous.

Speaker: norm macdonald cameo

Patrick: they paid McDonald to a, a cameo to um, tell him to tell everyone to continue harassing us, which he, which he did. Yeah, he did.

Javier: No way. Do you have that?

Niki: we've got it somewhere.

Norm Mcdonald: Hey, this is Norm McDonald here, and this is a message for all of Patrick's friends. Uh, I want you to stop picking on your friend Pat, after all, and I quote, his only crime was that he didn't find Norm McDonald. Funny. Wait a minute, here. I'm Norm McDonald. Huh? And I am funny. Please continue insulting that Fat Loser. Ah.

Niki: Yeah. But I mean, I don't think he knew, he didn't know what was going on.

Javier: no. Of course he doesn't know the

Niki: And I mean, he's dead now, but Yeah.

Speaker: more tor swats

Patrick: Going back to the swatting, it doesn't seem to be easing up.

Speaker: Patrick: parents swatted

Patrick: and now, um, my elderly parents have been swatted twice. They live two hours from here.

Niki: In the middle of like in the middle central Wisconsin, in the middle of nowhere. So like the cops

Patrick: there didn't know anything about it. And so, you know, they got pulled out of their house at 2:00 AM at 2:30 AM with guns pointed at them. Their hand, you ordered to have their hands in the air. and like my parents are

Niki: in their seventies in that seven swatting in 36 hours. They were swatted within that. And I'm not counting that one as part of the seven. Yeah. And there was a bomb threat in there too. That's, yeah. There was a bomb threat that's in that 36 hours. Yeah. There was a bomb threat.

Patrick: is our, this is every day for us. This is just what our lives have looked like for every day, for five years. We don't get any, we don't get breaks. We don't get time off for good behavior. We can't do we, and we can no longer even relax in our own home because it's been violated so many times.

Javier: Well, and I saw those pictures of, of you at those events in the DC and Detroit. I mean, that's creepy. You were in the same room with these guys. They've come to your house.

Niki: yep,

Speaker: How does this end?

Javier: So how does this end? Here's Eric Heidelman again.

Speaker: Javier Leiva_2023-07-13_01;07;48: You think if Patrick and Nikki just stopped engaging with them, this would go away. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: Um, I think if they had done that more towards the beginning, that would be, you know, it, it would be realistic that the trolls would, you know, get bored and move on. It's not a technique that I necessarily approve of. It's better, you know, that they just, you know, stop the abuse in the first place because if you try to get rid of them by ignoring them than what they do is they find another victim. Eric Hildeman_2023-07-13_01;07;48: They don't stop, they just find somebody else.

Javier: who the hell has that kind of time? Wouldn't you love to have that kind of time? They just sit around and

Patrick: got, we just got the time back that we spend fighting these motherfuckers.

Niki: I mean, we spend, I'd have 10 books written by now. We spend, like, every day we have to set up some sort of defense

Javier: This is like a third

Niki: yeah. It's, it's, it's like a, it is And it's exhausting. And I mean, like this

Javier: yeah. And I, I mean even this, even this is like time that you should have been doing something else, you know? Like, why do you need to talk about this? You know, it's like, must be very annoying that, that this is part of your life,

Niki: Yeah, but it's.

Patrick: No, you asked earlier how it ends and, um, it, it ends with someone finally taking this seriously enough to go out, find them and arrest them.

Javier: all right, we're gonna end the episode right here. This is the last one I plan to do on this series, but you know, this case has taken five years to get to this point and it, there really is no sign of it slowing down. If anything does happen, anything substantial happens, I will keep you posted either on Pretend Plus or on Patreon. And if it's a really big update, I will definitely put out an episode here on the main feed. But yeah, this is a thing. new fear unlocked. Alright, take care and thank you for listening.