1508: The Christmas Con
Show Notes
In today's Christmas episode, we delve into the story of David Ellisor, a man whose grand Christmas scheme left the city of Miami in disbelief. Ellisor, a real-life Grinch, planned to host "Christmas From Around the World," a supposed once-in-a-lifetime event promising the presence of ambassadors, live reindeer, and a spectacle of global traditions. But the event never happened. He collected the cash and made a run for it. This is a Christmas caper for the ages.
Plus, listeners tell their own Christmas con stories.
Merry Christmas! Happy Holidays! And I wish all of you a Happy New Year!
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Transcript
Speaker: During the Christmas season, Santa sends an elf to every child's home to see if they're being naughty or nice. All day, they watch their child, never blinking and never moving, and each night they return to the North Pole to report back to Santa. Who came up with the elf on the shelf, seriously? Who thought it was a good idea to hide an elf each and every night? It never fails, my wife and I head to the bedroom, I lay down, I turn over, close my eyes, and sit up in a panic. Did you remember to move the elf? Of course I didn't remember. Now I have to walk all the way downstairs, move the elf. And each year, it gets more complicated. It started with one elf, his name was Elliot. Then the next year, they introduced the girl elf. We now have three fricking elves to move around every night. And they can't just move, they have to do something creative. I really hate this tradition, but I must admit, I mean, sometimes it's a little fun when the elves do something naughty, but trying to come up with something clever every night gets old really fast. But now that we've started this insane tradition, we can't just stop. One year, I snuck into my oldest daughter's room. Surely, she should be asleep by now, right? I slowly open the door and quietly step in. That's when two big eyes pop open. I quickly move my hand behind my back, but it was too late. She asked, Daddy, why are you holding the elf? I said, I'm not holding the elf. I'm here to give you medicine. That was the only thing I could think of. Medicine. And she wasn't even sick. Oh boy. So the next night, we're having dinner and I thought, ha, I got away with it. Maybe she thought it was all a dream. But boy was I wrong. I literally saw him with it, um, Daddy with his hand, with his elf in the hand. You were caught elf handed? I did not. Yeah, you ran into my room. I did not have an elf. You ran into my room like this. He comes around the corner screaming. Here's your medicine! But screams on the top of his lungs! What followed was a full blown interrogation. So I pulled out my phone and started recording. And also I saw a magazine where I could find Elliot, the exact Elliot on the exact magazine. That it was exactly. Ever. Yeah, we've never claimed that and we've never claimed that we are doing it or are not doing it. All we have said about the entire Christmas spirit is that if you believe good things happen and if you don't believe it ends, we, we all know that I give my wife wool credit for trying to stop the bleeding, but we were totally unprepared for what was about to happen next. If the elf on the shelf isn't real, then what else are we lying about? We all know that Easter bunny's not real, right? Yeah. Lauren saw it. Lauren watched you hide the egg. Wait, Lauren saw that Easter bunny? No. You saw you. What? So wait, I'm the Easter Bunny? And Lauren was looking out the window and he was hiding at the old house right at the tree, the big tree in the front. Last year, so we were all the way over by the playhouse and We were, like, thinking, I don't, we don't see any more of the, like, eggs over there. And I said, I don't think there's any more over there. And he said, yeah, I never hid any, any over there. I did not say that. You did. You did. I didn't say that. Yes, you did. So, I'm the Easter bunny. I'm the elf on the shelf. And what else am I? Geez. You're Jesus? That would be awesome! You're the Father of the Holy Spirit! Well And that is definitely the Easter Bunny. He omitted it. So guess what? My oldest had me pinned, but my youngest was like, Wait, wait, wait. I still want to believe. I think Santa's real though. Oh. Yeah, I do. Are you sure or do you just want the gifts? No, I think Santa's real. I think I believe in Santa. Just, uh, that one year when Santa did come on the screen, I knew that it was photoshopped by daddy. Yeah, but I still believe in him. But I think he I saw how fast he could photoshop a ghost behind me in a mirror. It's true, I once photoshopped a ghost in a mirror behind them to freak them out. Don't judge me. What about the tooth fairy? Where are we standing on this nowadays? I Considering you have some loose teeth in your head right now, where do we stand on this? I'll say I'll remember until my last tooth falls out. I believe in Santa, I believe in the tooth fairy, the elf, and the In today's episode, we're going to talk about Christmas cons. In our first segment, you're going to hear about a real life Christmas con. Rinch, who planned a Christmas extravaganza so big that he fooled hundreds of children in the city of Miami, only to crush their spirits. It's a holiday grift that's so hard to believe if it wasn't true. We're also going to end the episode with stories from you. I ask my listeners to submit stories about when they learned the truth about Christmas. So stick around to the end because these stories are great. I'm Javier Leyva, and this is Pretend. Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. David Ellisor got an idea. He's got a wonderful, awful idea. In Miami's sun, where the palm trees sway, David Elliser had a thought one bright sunny day. What if, he pondered with a mischievous grin, I host a grand event where we can all join in. A three day wonder, a spectacle to see. Christmas from around the world, oh, what a joy it will be. Pageants and presents for every girl and boy, even live reindeer to bring them joy. A feast to remember with taste from afar, under Christmas trees twinkling like a bright star. Decorations, art from lands wide and vast, and ambassadors from 28 nations. A truly grand cast. David Elliser must have thought, it's going to be amazing. Imagine how much money I can make. I mean, how much Christmas cheer I could spread. That's right, cheer. But here's the twist, in our tale so bold, David Elliser's intentions weren't quite as gold. He never planned for this event to be real, yet he collected checks with a dishonest zeal. Alright, enough with the Dr. Seuss impersonation. I can do that all day, by the way. This isn't a tale from a children's book, no, it's a real life Grinch story of a man named David Lee Elliser, who dreamed up a three day event called Christmas from Around the World. He collected money from teachers and students from across Miami Dade County for this fake event. But here's the thing, if you're going to host the greatest Christmas event the world has ever seen, but will never actually happen, you still have to convince people that it's real. You know, so they could pay you. The first thing Elisir did was get a sponsor, a real big reputable sponsor like the University of Miami. So he convinced a part time lecturer at the University of Miami's art school to write a letter with the university's letterhead confirming that the school was a sponsor. Now that he had a big name backing him, he needed to figure out how to feed thousands of children and teachers at this fake event. So he called party caterers. Hello. Hi, is this Michael? Yes, it is. Michael Schott was the owner of Party Caterers. We did everything parties dinner for two big events, you know weddings I asked Michael about the first time he met David Ellis, sir Well, my first encounter was some didn't seem right So he came to my office and he was trying to sell this whole trip and for some reason Something just didn't seem right with the guy. So we went ahead up to almost the last day And we backed out right at the last day. And when he pulled all the buses up or did not pull all the buses up, that was part of the problem. He didn't do anything. He said, how did, how did David Ellis or sell this idea to you? Like what was his pitch when he told you this? Well, his pitch was, we got all these Catholic school kids. We're taking them on a field trip. He charged them a certain amount. And then also was doing, um, A box lunch when he came to me, I said, sure, I can do it. No problem. It's, you know, certain things just didn't seem right with him. So we were kind of sketchy at best. But why would a con artist throwing a fake Christmas party order real food for a party he never intends to host? Did he leave a deposit or anything? No, that was part of the problem. When he tried to give me a check, it bounced. So that there was another thing. I just knew something wasn't right. Why would he get money out of you? I don't, wouldn't it be trying to get money as a kickback for, for doing the party. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you get these party guys or, um, special events guys, I guess. And they'll throw you a job and they want to cut. You know what I'm saying? They want a percentage. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so not only did he want your service, he wanted, he wanted to make money out of this. Correct. Correct. He wanted me to kick back. That's right. In August of 2003, David Elliser approached Michael Schott, the owner of The Catering Company, to offer his company, Party Caterers, The sole concession rights to Christmas from around the world, but that would require an upfront payment party caters. Concession rights would include the right to serve alcohol and dinners for the diplomats and 5 lunches to the students who visited the show. David Ellison even promised Michael shot 20 percent of the show's total revenue. to ensure that, you know, he wouldn't lose a thing. This wasn't their first meeting. In fact, David Ellisor dropped by Michael Schott's office over and over again, asking for more money. Eventually, David Ellisor received almost 8, 000 from party caterers. All right, so he has a sponsor and food lined up for his fake event. Now, he needs decorations. David Elliser contacted the Christmas Palace. The Christmas Palace, for those of you not familiar with the Miami area, is a year round Christmas store. When David Elliser showed up, he pitched the idea to the store's owner that, quote, all the ambassadors from around the world were behind this. and supportive of the idea. Ellisor also told the Christmas Palace owner that the University of Miami, the Double Tree Hotel, the City of Miami Fire and Police Department were all sponsors of the show. David Ellisor practically begged the store owner to become a sponsor and to donate Christmas trees and decorations. But the shop owner denied him every time he asked. But you know, David Ellisor is not one to take no for an answer. He claimed on his flyer that the Christmas Palace was indeed a sponsor of the Christmas From Around the World event. And at some point the shop's owner must have given David Ellisor the Christmas Palace FedEx account number so that I guess Elisir could send him information about the show. So what did David Elisir do with that FedEx number? Well, he used it to send invitations out to the schools. Almost 2, 000 worth of charges. And the Christmas Palace was completely unaware. With the Christmas Palace FedEx account in hand, David Elliser mailed out the invitations to teachers at public and private schools all across Miami Dade County, encouraging their students to take this amazing field trip to see the Christmas show. The invitation read, quote, This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to meet 28 foreign ambassadors, view Christmas trees decorated with ornaments from countries and other cultural art exhibits, And receive thousands of dollars worth of sponsored gifts. The cost of the show was 10 per student made payable to the university diplomatic trust account, which by the way, is an account managed by David Elliser. Teachers from 23 schools filled out registration forms, receiving tickets for students ranging from third grade all the way to fifth grade. And as you can imagine, Everyone thought this was a wonderful idea, but some students wanted more details about the event. So they called up David Ellisor. According to some teachers, Ellisor made the show sound even better than what was on the invitation. He promised that there would be hundreds of lights and characters like Harry Potter going around talking to the kids in the crowd. He promised a hot Christmas lunch and educational scavenger hunt, even live reindeer. The teachers thought, this is great. What can go wrong, right? Pretty soon, David Elliser started receiving checks from the schools and deposited it into his university diplomatic trust account. And get this, the school even arranged and paid for bus transportation to get the students to this event. Here's Michael Schott again. They gave him all the money up front. You know what I mean, meaning for the tickets, he sold tickets and they got, you know, they got scammed on all the tickets. Let's put it that way. But just a day after receiving all the checks from the school, David Ellison checked into a suite at the double tree hotel where he stayed for the next two weeks. He called up Enterprise Rent A Car and asked them to deliver a luxury Jaguar to drive around town. A few days later he swapped the Jag for a Cadillac DeVille. So you're probably thinking to yourself, what is the end game here? Great question. I'm not really sure. Because, while all of this is going on, Elisir is still planning the event, or at least telling people he was. David Elisir met with the convention center manager at the Coconut Grove Expo Center, Gregory Wright. David Elisir told the convention center manager the same story he told everyone else. He asked to hold the convention center from December 1st through the 5th. Elisir even left a deposit for 2, 500. After securing the dates, it was time for Elisir to make the next payment for the event space. He wrote a check for 5, 000, but the check bounced. At this point, the convention center managers suspected something was fishy, so he told Elisir that they no longer accept checks. Elisir assured Wright that he had plenty of money coming in. And a few days later, Elisir showed up with 1, 000 in cash. About 4, 000 short, Elisir must have been panicking. This insanely elaborate scam was starting to unravel. He reportedly asked one of the teachers to give the school's check for 1, 000 directly to the convention center. But he needed more cash. So he drove to another elementary school to pick up a check, this time for 2, 000. But the school administrator didn't just hand over the money. They looked him up and down because here they have this fast talking salesman with a worn out suit and a disheveled appearance not only asking for money, but asking for money now. Who does that? The school principal asked Ellisor if the show is going to live up to the hype. Ellisor said, yeah. I asked Michael Schott to describe David Ellisor, and he too was concerned about his appearances. He came to my office like three times and yeah, you know, the one time his suit he had a cockroach on his suit That was like a big telltale sign. Something wasn't right. Okay. All right back up So this wasn't like a well dressed guy then, right? Well, he came in kind of with a jacket and you know, he had pants on and he was trying to be well dressed but Like I said, something wasn't right. What do you mean? He had a cockroach, like, like it snuck out of his suit or what? What? Yeah, it was like pressed in his suit. Yes. David Elser never quite scrounged up enough money to pay off the remaining balance for the convention center. He also failed to get proper permits, license, and an insurance policy required to book the convention space. This event is going to fail and it is going to fail fast. When we come back from the break, we are going to talk about what happened when kids arrived at the convention center. But first, a word from today's sponsor. The big day has arrived. Do you remember how exciting it was to go on a field trip? Nothing, nothing beats field trip day. The children arrived at school early, they filed into the buses and headed to the greatest Christmas extravaganza they will never see. Nobody knows that this thing is not going to happen, right? Like everybody thinks that the plan is still on. So did you make all that food? Did you show up? No, that was the reason when he, when his check bounced. And then the day came and I said, if you don't come with cash, we're not going to do it. And sure enough, you know, I, I get a call, you know, why aren't you guys here? I'm like, did the buses show up? Did anything show up that he said? And nope. So that's kind of where it just went. There were no Christmas trees or decorations, no tables, chairs, sound system, or art. There were no ambassadors, no Harry Potters, and especially no David Ellisers. On December 3rd, 2003, the first day of the Christmas Around the World show, Elliser wrote and cashed a check for the remaining balance of the university diplomatic trust account. And in the lower left hand corner of the check, he wrote, For presence in the memorandum line. With cash in his pocket, he went to the car dealer and purchased a luxury car. Meanwhile, the children showed up at the convention center, but the doors were locked. They looked through the glass windows, and the whole place was empty. As you can imagine, the teachers were confused. But most of them were pretty upset. They called Elisir's number, but the phone kept ringing. Eventually, they got an answering machine message saying, This is David. I'm sorry to inform you that the show has been postponed because we didn't have enough money to buy presents. The city of Miami would not accept the school's checks. And we are sorry about the last minute delay. The field trip has been postponed until a couple weeks from now. We are sorry. Unlike the Grinch, this story doesn't have a warm and fuzzy ending. It wasn't Christmas Day will always be just as long as we have we. No, it was more like where the hell is this MF er who sold us a bag of goods? All in all, approximately 2, 700 tickets were purchased for the Christmas show. No refunds were ever given. Everyone involved lost collectively 42, 000 that day. Michael Schott with the party caterers lost almost 8, 000. The Double Tree Hotel, 1, 600. And the Christmas Palace lost 2, 000 from all those FedEx charges. But the biggest losers were the children and the schools. Altogether, the schools sent in 24, 000 in checks that were deposited to the University Diplomatic Trust Account, a Bank of America account managed by ELISIR. A few days later, after multiple complaints, The FBI got involved. They sought a warrant with the judge's neat scrawl for Mr. Ellisor who evaded them all. Christmas twinkled and faded. The new year did too. But Mr. Ellisor, where was he? Not a single clue. The calendar flipped as calendars do from December the last to January anew. 2004 it was where hopes had gone. But Mr. Ellisor, oh, he was still on the run. Almost a month with a chase far from fun, when finally, finally, Elliser's freedom was done. He turned himself in with a sigh and a shrug, in a world of whimsy, a tale of a hugger mugger snug. So what did the investigation find? According to the records, David Elliser wrote checks to himself, his girlfriend, and the part time art professor at the university. There were other charges too. David Elliser bought groceries, went to the dry cleaners, bought Tires, wine, sunglasses, rented blockbuster videos, and had hotel charges on the backs of children and vendors. But let's dig into this hotel stay at the Doubletree Hotel. David Elliser paid for more than just a place to lay his head. Elliser charged in room movies to his room. What kind of movies? He claimed it was, quote, rock and roll movies, but the evidence shows that it was actually, yep, you guessed it, porn. Oh, but wait, there's more to this plot. After his arrest, investigators discovered that this wasn't the first time David Elliser bamboozled school children. He was accused of pulling off the same scheme in California. Missouri, Colorado, and Arizona. Instead of Christmas from around the world, this event was called Washington, D. C. on Tour. The invitation promised students 41 exhibits of art and history about our nation's capital. And just like in Miami, Ellisert canceled the show and was nowhere to be found. The state of Utah fined Ellisert 31, 000 for failure to refund the students. At trial, David Elliser took the stand. He told the jury that he was a private detective, a diplomatic liaison, a show producer, and a guitarist. He admitted that no specific ambassador had confirmed to attend the Christmas from Around the World show. And he pointed to a disclaimer on the invitation that said, quote, Specific ambassadors may or may not appear, but the jury did not buy it. At 52 years old, David Lee Elliser was convicted on eight counts of mail fraud and was sentenced to more than seven years in prison and was ordered to pay 38, 000 in restitution. The court found Elliser's offense to be so quote Reprehensible? They take money from young, impressionable, and vulnerable children. Children who had the expectation that they were going to attend something very special. The court also found that, quote, Mr. Ellisor had a long track record of engaging in fraudulent behavior. And there is no doubt in the court's mind that Mr. Ellisor would resume his pattern of deceitful conduct in the future if given a mere slap on the wrist. The court was convinced that, quote, given the chance, Elisir would do it all over again, and that the only way to protect the small children and others from his phony operations is to keep him behind bars. In the tale of David Elisir, with its twists and its turns, A question lingers as the Christmas light burns. Did his heart, so small, in the end find its way? To grow three sizes larger on that fateful day? With schemes and deceptions now brought to light, did he see the error? Did he make it right? Did the spirit of Christmas, with its joy and its cheer, touch his heart? And draw honesty near. The truth is, I'm not sure. I've searched federal court case databases, newspaper archives, Google, YouTube. It seems David Ellisor disappeared off the face of the earth. When we come back, we're going to listen to some of our listeners Christmas con stories. That's after the break. Our first story comes from listener Liana. So I'm putting myself into my 10 year old mind. I can picture it very clearly. I'd walked into my parents bedroom to look for a pair of stockings. And mind you, I was 10, but I was also a pretty tall child. So I was about 5'7 5'5 maybe at this point in my life, um, and so I could borrow my mother's stockings. So I grabbed a pair and when I was digging through the drawer, I noticed a big stack of letters addressed to none other but Santa Claus. So I grabbed a stack of letters and realized that something is really wrong. I run to the bathroom where I know my sister is showering and with no regard for any kind of privacy, I fling open the shower door and I say, what is this? What are all these letters doing here? And she said, um, Mind you, she's 13. Uh, remember we had to rewrite all of the letters to Santa. So I think those are just copies that, that mom saved. Immediately, I knew I was being had and so I made her tell me the truth. I approached my mom. Um, I was devastated and crying. It was, it was pretty memorable and devastating. I love the magic of it. I still do. I do it for my kids. Although we're having conversations about what does it really mean to lead kids on and, and allow them to believe in something that's not true. Uh, it's just, it's a struggle for sure. Um, but I certainly appreciate the magic that my parents created for me. Here's one from Randy LaFoussier. I'm not sure if this counts as a Christmas story or not, although it did happen around Christmastime. My parents had taken us to an A& W drive in restaurant. I don't know if you had these where you grew up, and maybe they had disappeared by the time you grew up. But these were the old fashioned kind of drive ins like you see in movies from the 50s. You'd drive your car up, and there'd be a tray that you would put into the window of the car, and waitresses would come out on roller skates to serve you your food. Well, we had ordered those delicious tall glasses of frosted A& W root beer floats. We loved those. And when we were going home, my parents took those glasses and put them in the car and we drove away. They had always told us that stealing was wrong. And we were terrified sitting in the backseat of the car because we felt that the police were going to just chase us down and arrest my parents for stealing those glasses. We got home and we begged and we begged my parents to please, please take the glasses back because we didn't want them to go to jail. We didn't know what we would do if they went to jail. So my mother, not wanting to see us crying any longer, said, okay, we're going to take the glasses back. Don't worry about it. They're gone. Roll forward several years. And I was talking to my mom about it and she told me, we never took those glasses back. We just threw them away. My sister and I were horrified because we'd always been told that the greatest sin you could do in life was to lie. And here, my parents had not only stolen those glasses, but they lied to us about it. I don't think I ever felt the same about them after that, even though I always loved my parents. Here's Katie Watson with her story. Hi, Javier. Um, I was thinking about the deceptions that we perpetrate around Santa, and I was thinking that myself personally, um, I've got two children and every year I have to make sure that I've bought the different wrapping paper that they haven't seen, so that anything I wrap up in the stocking, they're not going to be like, oh, that's the same wrapping paper that we've got, because then they'll put two and two together. And then last year, we went away for Christmas and our luggage was delayed. And I was thinking of all the lies I'd have to tell them about why Santa hadn't come that year, because all the stocking stuff was in the luggage. And then I was thinking, why? Why do we have to do this? Um, they're getting a bit older now, my daughter. Yesterday, said Santa isn't real, but we had to make her be quiet because her little brother was quite nearby, so haven't really had that conversation with her yet. Um, but yeah, the whole thing just is getting more and more stressful. Oh well, um, thanks for your great show. Um, hope you have a great Christmas and Happy New Year. Bye! We're wrapping things up with Alana. Hi, Javier. My name is Alana. My sister and I learned. So, just for context, my sister and I were 120 acres in the middle of the country. This is just to kind of understand that we had a very, uh, against the grain upbringing. And our mother was extremely, uh, Pragmatic, impractical, not emotional at all, definitely didn't understand the emotional needs of children. So, what I remember is that our mother kind of pulling us aside one day and saying, Do you know the truth about Santa Claus? And we said, No. And she said, Well, Santa Claus isn't real. Uh, I'm the one who's been doing all of that work. And she gave us a book. I wish I knew what book this was. I wish I could track it down. What I remember most clearly is that the book had, uh, woodcut prints in it. And I remember that very clearly because the images accompanying the story were quite disturbing and alarming. What I remember from the story is that the real man, who back in the Middle Ages, perhaps, This man had, uh, rescued and saved children from being pickled in barrels. And I distinctly remember woodcut prints of children's body parts sticking out of a wooden barrel. Uh, and this man, I guess that was, uh, something that happened to children back then? I'm not sure. I don't remember. But this man rescued them and because of his, uh, love for saving children's lives or something, apparently that was how he was sainted. And so, uh, we got the one two punch of not only learning that Santa Claus was not real, but that Children apparently can be cut into pieces and pickled in barrels. It was quite a, quite an awakening for us. Um, and something that we have stuck with me my entire life. Um, all right, take care. Thank you. I love your show, Javier. Thank you again. Bye bye. These were great stories. In fact, if you have a cool Christmas story, send it to me. Maybe I'll put it in the show next year. All right. Well, that wraps it up for 2023. I mean, it's been an amazing year in the six years that I've been doing podcasting. 2023 is a standout year because most of you discovered the show this year through the stalker series. And, you know, it's so funny. I only intended that that series to be 10 episodes and then it went to 12 episodes and then 15 and now it's at 18 and still going. God knows when it will end. I'm just so happy that all of you are here supporting this small show. You know, a lot of you think that I do this full time and I don't, I actually have a real job with real responsibilities. And so this is just my hobby. And it's a really, really time consuming and hard hobby. I spent lots of nights, lots of weekends at Starbucks working on this for you, but I don't do it alone. I have an editor now, uh, Poonish Chinoy, who is amazing. I have an assistant producer. Her name is Audrey Gibbs. She is phenomenal. And you'll hear more from Audrey next year. This has been a year of many firsts. You know, I've actually taken on social media, even though I hate being on camera. I've been doing a daily video. Every morning on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube shorts, and Facebook, and it's pretty cool because that's where I get to talk about the episodes that didn't quite make it on the podcast and actual actual stories that I'm researching right now, like the woman from New Hampshire, Lisa Landon, who pretended to be a prosecutor in order to drop the charges against her. Yes, that really did happen. She did this three times. I'm completely fascinated about this case. So I've taken on to social media to talk about it. So you're seeing a podcast in the making 2023 was also the year that john taylor and I wrapped up season four of criminal conduct can't believe that we've been doing criminal conduct for almost four years now. And we are working on season five right now. It takes place in Vegas has Strippers, wrestlers, the mafia. I mean what, what more can you ask for? That's coming out real soon next year. And also, this was the year that I started my third podcast. As if two podcasts weren't enough, but Ponzi Playbook is my third podcast. I host it with Neil McTighe. That show is supposed to be a business podcast for a whole different audience, but it is really fun. I hope you check it out. I have more fun putting together the Ponzi playbook than I do pretend and criminal conduct combined. It's just been a great year, and I just want to thank all my Patreon supporters, my Pretend Plus supporters, my regular listeners. You know, you don't have to support the show monetarily. I appreciate that. Those that do because honestly, we couldn't do it without you, but the fact that you have been sharing the podcast with your friends means the world to me. And as as long as you are enjoying it, I'm going to keep doing this. I still think it's a lot of fun. I always think I'm going to run out of ideas one of these days, but I never do. So please have a wonderful holiday, whatever you celebrate with you and your family. I just hope that you guys. I have some time off, some time to rest, and I really appreciate every single one of you. I really do. Happy New Year. I will talk to you in 2024.