2403: The Cancer Sympathy Machine part 3

Speaker: INTRO

Harry: I waited my whole life for the perfect woman. And Rachel was that woman.

Speaker: Harry literally waited. He first met rachel in 2001. They've been seeing each other off and on again for almost 25 years. But in

Harry: She would say to me, Javier, and this just makes me sick. I just found this the other day. She, at the beginning when we first picked each other in November and, and I fell madly in love with her.

Speaker: She said to me at one point, you are the greatest gift of my life. She knew what to say to me to reel me in.

Javier: in November of 2021, she tells you that it was always you. Right.

Harry: She says, it was always me. After we picked each other, she would say to me, oh my harrying. It was always you. For me, I have a print. I'm looking at my office right now. I think there's a print that's just out of reach that I bought. On Etsy while she was in the hospital. I put it over my bed. It says, it was always you.

Speaker: And she would say the most wonderful things. I, in my phone, would write down these things that she would say to me like, you're the greatest gift of my life. And, um, and, and I would start to keep track of the things that she would say to me here's a, here's one. I'm gonna read a couple of these for you, if you'll humor me. I'm not doing this for anyone else, any other podcasts they can No, I love you, Harry, so, so much. I love you so much. I can't wait to be your wife. All I can think about is you. I've never felt closer to you or anybody in my life than I do you. There was one thing working against them. Harry lived in Vegas and Rachel in Southern California. Up to this moment, they kept the relationship alive through phone calls, endless text threads, and promises that always seemed just out of reach. But in 2022—two decades after they first met—they made a move. They planned to see each other in person. For the first time in twenty years. And we settled on August 27th to meet in Santa Barbara. I was waiting for her and Javier when she got to the hotel and she said, I'm coming up the stairs and I'll see you in a minute. I walked out in the hallway and I hadn't seen her in several years. And I remember standing there looking at her going, she's still beautiful. She's still really beautiful. there was a hug and a kiss and it was like, it was a different meeting from the beginning and I dunno if I was just vulnerable or what, but I was just like, this is really good. And I, and I think the wheels were spinning even before dinner that like, maybe this could actually turn into something beyond just friends with benefits. And we had an amazing night. There's a bar downstairs. We were at Brophy Brothers in Santa Barbara, a great spot, and we go downstairs and have some drinks at the bar and we're just flirty and fun and, and then we are waiting for our Uber and we're in the parking lot. The Proposal and the BombshellHarry: And I said to her, I said, you know, if it wasn't for proximity, I would be all in. And I think we should consider how to, how to find our way as a couple, if that's of interest to you. And that was my approach. There wasn't a full court press. It wasn't like, I need to be with you. You need to be my girl. It wasn't like no obsession. It was just like, we've always been attracted to each other. There's always been some level of love and respect there. Why not? This is how good relationships start. A good foundation, except this foundation was built on. Not concrete, but it was built on quicksand with lies. And then within a month and a half of that, on December the 19th, I find out that she's pregnant and she has cancer on the same day. But we do a whirlwind between August and November decide to be together, and then 45 days later on the same day. She says, I have cancer and I'm pregnant. so she decides she doesn't want to go through treatment. We have this back and forth, and then she agrees to take treatment. Si months later, Rachel gets admitted to the hospital on June of 2022. she texted me in the morning and said, I woke up this morning and my heart, it hurts physically. And I can't move my arm and something's wrong. And I thought, man, she, you know, left arm heart attack. She thought she was displaying signs of a stroke. Like imagine that I'm, I'm, you know, seven hours away. She's telling me she thinks she had a heart attack and a stroke. She's called a nurse. They're gonna send an ambulance. She's displaying signs of I, I think what they call her. T-A-T-M-I or something like a mini stroke and, and then she's rushed to the hospital. Her heart rate elevates up into the three hundreds and she's siren lights to the hospital, and I was just looking at the phone for updates. I'm like, please text me. Please text me. Please text me. Even though he's 7 hours away, Harry was was right there with her... He kept his phone with him waiting to hear from her. I said it to her and I said, you need someone that's strong enough to deal with this by your side. She knew at that point that she had me hook, line and sinker. She's like, oh, he's speaking my language. Harry was with her through what she described as intense chemotherapy. So the radiation happens and then she gets these tests and every one of the tests is all bad news. There's no hope of getting out. The cancer's growing, the cells are growing. Now I have a tumor in my intestines and I have one in my throat, and the next thing you know, she's got a brain tumor. And then by December they're gonna operate on the brain tumor. She doesn't want to do it. She's adamant she doesn't wanna go to brain surgery.

Javier: can you visit her at the hospital if you

Harry: protective isolation. According to her,

Javier: What does that mean?

Harry: it means white suits one doctor in per shift. You know, you can look it up, it

Javier: I mean, this is like during COVID too, so you got that going on and

Harry: Think about boy in the plastic bubble for a minute. The, the juicy scoop girl, Heather brought that up and I said I was, I'm old enough to have watched that on an A, B, C Friday night movie.

Javier: too. Yeah.

Harry: And, um. This was growing the plastic bubble. I wasn't smart enough to, to say, you know what? I'm coming to the hospital.

Speaker: I don't give a fuck. I'll stand in your window and tap on the window and I'll just be there.

The Brain Surgery Scamharry: She's like, well, I don't want to have the brain surgery.

Speaker: I'd rather let the cancer take me, and, and I had to talk her into the brain surgery. Like I'm talking her into nothing as it turns out, like the whole thing was just a goddamn scam. As you probably guessed, Rachel didn't have cancer. And Harry had no reason to doubt her

Harry: It. It was a message. Rachel's youngest daughter and I communicated through Words with friends

Javier: Oh, interesting.

Harry: Rachel wouldn't give her a phone. She had an iPod that she played words with friends on. You know, I, um. I didn't know what to do other than believe it. You know what I mean? And, and she was, at any rate, I I, I got the message from Rachel's daughter that her heart rate was dropping.

Speaker: Her daughter would keep me posted on things that were happening in the room. She said to me, my mom's heart rate is dropping. She's really upset today. And she literally gave me the countdown from like 40 to 38 to 35 to 25 to all this stuff. And by the way. Not a word of a lie in this at all, but over the last couple days, um, my, you know, I wear an Apple watch my, I got an alert that my heart rate dropped below 40

Javier: Wow.

Harry: for 10 minutes, three different times over the last few days, which to me was like, oh my, you know what I mean?

Speaker: Like, I'm like, in my head, I'm like, how would my heart rate drop? Like, do I have, you know, I, I, I wrote to my doctor, he said, have some coffee and relax. He said, you're, you're, he said it happens. It's fine. But you know, that whole concept of your heart stopping, her heart, stopping hearing from her daughter, and then 25, 20 10 CPR is happening, you know, zero. And I'm looking at my phone. I, you know, I would, sometimes I wouldn't be able to hold my phone and I would, I would do this, and I would put it between my feet. And I would just look down at it, like for updates as they would come in. And that was that moment. And I remember having tears running down my face, like heart rate is zero. And, and I'm thinking the heart rate's zero. How long has this been going on? Like, she's, she's dead. Like, I, I can't even bring you to that place right now thinking, oh my God, this is it. This is the day she died. 10 minutes later, her daughter said, one of the doctors, they, she said, first of all, that she said, they called it, they just called it, my mom is dead. Fuck. And then within 10 minutes she said one of the doctors stayed and they have a heartbeat. And her heart had stopped for, you know, maybe two minutes or whatever. But she got 26 minutes worth of compressions, is what the daughter said. And what Dr. Holt said that the toll that that took. It was like watching a movie where you go, oh my God, I gotta, I gotta pause this for a minute. Like, I'm in a panic.

Javier: Harry, for some reason, I don't know if you have like, um. Like a noise gate or something. But you keep cutting in and out. Uh,

Harry: You know what, let me get rid of the Yeah, let me get rid of the pro. And

Javier: It's not terrible, but, um,

Harry: I noticed, I noticed that. Let me see, um, let me see. This is better. I'll leave it at that. I'll take out the process. I know that there was a, a compressor. Or something in the road.

Javier: Yeah. But now it's, you're good. But even what we recorded is fine, but, but I did notice it coming in and out.

Harry: Gotcha.

The Shocking Revelationjavier Leiva: And so this whole time you're having this emotional rollercoaster, you think you're talking with her daughter, who are you really talking to?

Harry: It was Rachel.

Introharry: Today, we’re talking to Harry, the man behind The Rachel Cancer Story podcast.

Speaker: As twisted as it may seem. This episode is a love story of when Harry loved Rachel, before he learned that everything he loved about her was a lie. IAt Harry’s request, I won’t use Rachel’s last name. But every major claim you’ll hear today has been independently verified. I’ve reviewed the documents, the screenshots, the audio recordings—everything. And what I found backs up his story. I'm Javier Leiva and this is PRETEND... Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. AD BREAKDiscovering the PodcastJavier Leiva: So, Harry, I listened to your podcast. I listened to 10 episodes in one sitting. I mean, it was, it was crazy. And the thing that stood out to me is that you're describing this woman who is a con artist by every description. Yet it sounds like part of you is still in love with her.

Harry: I, I wanna, I want to clarify that for you. First of all, thank you for going down the rabbit hole and, and doing 10 in a sitting. That's a lot by any, by anyone's standards. Um. Uh, I want you to keep in mind a couple things, especially episode one and episode two. What you are hearing is Harry, two or three days after he found out that Rachel was lying.

Speaker: Okay? So I'm fresh at that point. I am fresh off of thinking that the woman I love more than I love anything in the world is in the hospital, weighs 66 pounds, has had multiple brain surgeries, is paralyzed, has a colostomy bag, and, and, and, and no memory of the last 10 years. So all I am is a guy that was a side piece to her. All of this, all these things lies. And then one day out of the blue, 563 LA days later, I find out that she's lying about. Everything. And, and what you hear in episodes one and two are, are my therapeutic writings because I couldn't talk to anybody. So was I still in love with her at that point? No one has asked me that question, and the answer is, yeah. Episodes 1, 2, 3, 4, I I was probably still very much in love with her and Heartbroken

Harry Loved Racheljavier Leiva: It it, and I can't remember 'cause I don't have it in front of me, but you almost mentioned that it started off as a love letter to her in a way. And it, it all had a different title, right? Like, it's called Rachel Can, uh, it is called Rachel Cancer Scam. But what was the original title for

Harry: well, the, the title of episode one is Harry Loved Rachel because the series of stories I wrote to her while she was in the hospital were, were titled Harry Loves Rachel. And I wrote them as a daily love letter. The way you just put it is beautiful. It's how, it's how I describe it. I wrote this series of letters to Rachel every single day.

Speaker: I wrote 80 of them and they were about our future, about things we had done in the past about just life and being in love. And I had, by the way, I had never written a story in my life. I had never written a love letter in my life. And this cancer thing with her turned me into a different guy. And I wrote, Harry Loves Rachel and I, I would send them to her every single day. Are you ready? It was like a show we were watching together. I'd record it in the morning and then I'd send it to her and we'd listen at bedtime together in separate places. It was romantic, it was beautiful, it was sweet. And then when this all came out, I thought, son of a bitch.

Harry's Tough Exteriorjavier Leiva: And you know, I want my listeners, 'cause my audio, my podcast is an audio podcast and Harry is a tough looking dude, right? You got like tattoos, right? You, you, you're a strong guy. I mean, you're, if I came across you in public, I probably wouldn't have, you know, thought that, that somebody like you could be so vulnerable to, to a woman that, that had you wrapped around her finger.

Harry: You, I, I, first of all, I appreciate that. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm six one. I weigh about 240 pounds. I've been tattooed 15 times. I ride a Harley Davidson. I've been in martial arts for a long time. I, um, I, you know, I have a great resting bitch face, and I'm a guy that people generally will look at and go, I don't know that I want a part of this, and I'm grateful for that.

Speaker: Um, but I'm also really a good guy. You described me as big, tough, you know, whatever you don't wanna mess with, but I was at my most vulnerable with this. I fell for it. It brought me, this love, brought me to my knees, and I'm telling my story, not because I hate her, not because I want revenge against her. For context, Harry's trained in Kun Tao—Filipino hand-to-hand combat—for 25 years. He’s a brown belt and holds an instructor certificate. We teach self-awareness in martial arts. We teach when you're on the street. Be aware. I'm never anywhere. By the way, just as a thing about me as it relates to martial arts, even if I'm at a friend's house, if I'm in a group of people, I'm always looking at that group of people going, boy, if the shit hits the fan, who am I going after? It's my own training in my head. It, even though these are people I love, you know what I mean? Self being self-aware, situational awareness, and I had none with Rachel.

Javier: Well, she, she disarmed you because the things that she was saying was what everybody ultimately wants, right? Like, you got what everybody wants, but you fell in love with the equivalent of chat, GPT. I mean, she was just giving you back whatever response you wanted, right? Like she knew it.

Harry: where did that come from? What, what you just said, you fell in love with like, it's true though. Like think about it. She, that's probably what she was doing. Well, she would say, I just got this message from my boyfriend. Well, how do I respond? Like that may that, that

Javier: now we're giving people ideas,

How It All Stratedjavier Leiva: Well, and, and I mean, let's, let's go back to when you first met her, because it's, it, this is a relationship that spans 20 years, 20 plus years, probably. Right? And, and, and it happened in, in ways that are untraditional. And that's, that's what real life is like, right?

Speaker: Like, you know, you don't meet a girl and then fall in love and then get married. Life is messy. And so talk to us about like the first time you met Rachel and, and how it all started.

Harry: This is messy. Yeah. I like that. You, you've got a way of, of putting things and, um. It, it messy is messy. I moved across the country in 2001. I got to Vegas on January 4th. In April, I made a business trip to Houston and I was single. I hadn't had any luck meeting people. I made a very good living. I, it was like that line in heat with Robert De Niro.

Speaker: You don't keep anything in your life that you can't walk away from in 15 minutes or less. Right. That was my motto. I hadn't been married at that point, and I thought, I'm gonna get some company when I go to Houston, the female company. And, um, and I set this date up with a girl named Madison. And, you know, I, I hadn't done that before. Madison was Rachel's escort name. And then I get there. And I meet her and she walks through the door, Javier, and I swear to God, like she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen, like 21 years old at the height of her beauty winning beauty pageants. Tall and and sweet, like the sweetest. When I met Rachel in 2001 in Houston, you know, she was working as an escort. She was also working as a dancer and of. Model in adult men's magazines. I didn't know the dancing and modeling part, but when I was introduced to her, she introduced herself as Madison, and then we had our one encounter paid for it, and then she gave me her real name and her phone number, and that was it. I never knew her as Madison ever again.

Escort And Pageantjavier Leiva: And let's talk about that because she was working on an escort, uh, as an escort when you met her. But prior to that, I mean, just a couple years before that, she was competing in Ms. Texan USA. Right?

Harry: She was competing at that time, wasn't it? Just a couple years before that. She was in, at 1998. She was in another one in 2021. After I met her.

Speaker: she, she was disarming, she was charming. She was smart, and she was just so nice to me. Like, and maybe I was desperate to just be someone with someone that was gonna be nice. I was looking for an hour of something nice.

Javier: Hmm. So you have now crossed into a different realm, right? You, you're dating.

Harry: Yeah. And, and, and by the way she used that, she used that in a way to say, well, you've always been my Harry since the beginning. It was always you. For me. I just didn't realize it. Right.

Speaker: This all started in 2001... after that first encounter, Harry and Rachel kept in touch. They would meet up in Los Angeles. Sometimes, Harry would fly her up to Vegas. I mean, it was, you know, there was no, no, uh, escort John relationship at that point. It was not boyfriend girlfriend, but it was dating. and then, you know, we just lost touch and I began to date people and I ended up getting married in 2000 and, Harry got married, then divorced. Rachel moved on too. Harry said that she met a man named mark at a strip club in los angeles and they ended up getting married. Seven months later, she marries another man named Brian while she's still married to Mark. So she's now got two husbands at the same time. I've seen the marriage certificates. Just wild. And that lasted for three years. It took Poor Brian, I spoke to him. It took poor Brian almost three years to get divorced from Rachel.

Javier: you had this encounter with, with an escort, right? And, and then it turned into not an escort relationship, it turned into, uh, almost like, you know, a casual relationship and life goes on. You don't hear from this woman again, we know that in, in between she's marrying all these guys.

Speaker: But when, how did you reconnect with, you would think that once you. You know, you know, you parted ways that you would never see this woman again. How, how did she reenter your life?

Harry: I never got Rachel out of my head, Javier, this was one of those things where there was always something about her, how sweet and how a disarming she was with me.

Speaker: And, and I thought, I'm gonna find her. And this was early days of social. I get on Facebook and I find her, how are you, how are you? And then it, you know, one thing leads to another and it's, you know, Harry, what are you looking for? And I thought long and hard and I said, I, I, I think happiness is what I'm looking for. And, and we continue to talk. She also during this time started to share some stuff with me, which lay the foundation for where the entire story would go. E to me, everything in this story happened in 2012. It's almost like I could start in 2012, give a little thumbnail sketch of the early part of it. in 2012 when I connect with her, she begins to share stuff with me. She begins to share that the second daughter is a product of an of, of an sa and and that was a brutal attack. And then she indicates that she's not happy in her marriage. Her husband is abusive, and she begins to paint Mark as this abusive man. And I, you know, the protector in me, you know, wanted to protect. friend lauraHarry: I wanted to, you know, it didn't matter to me that he was abusive. I'd come see her and I don't really care, like what's he gonna do to me? Uh, that attitude. And, and then at one point friend lauraHarry: I wanted to, you know, it didn't matter to me that he was abusive. I'd come see her and I don't really care, like what's he gonna do to me? Uh, that attitude. And, and then at one point I ended up seeing her at, at some point, maybe a year after that, took a year to to see each other. She came to Vegas. And then I am sitting home one day and I get a message, I think on my phone from her phone. It's a text, and it's her friend Laura, who indicates that Rachel's in the hospital, you know, she got beaten up by Mark. And, and I ended up getting several of those messages. And at one point in time I started to get messages from Laura directly, and I think I, and I have a steel trap, as you hear in the podcast. In hindsight, knowing what we know now, Laura was just a figment of Rachel's imagination. I know I talked to Laura within the last six months. I skipped, traced the phone number, which I never did prior for Laura. Laura's phone number's registered to Rachel. Which was like a eureka mic drop. I mean, there's so many of those within this story. Like,

Javier: So who are you talking to?

Harry: yeah, who am I talking to? So, so the friend and this plot thickens this plot line of what she did, thickens.

Speaker: I think I'm talking to Rachel's friend and, and I said, oh my God, what happened? There's, there was never any hospital say, there was never any beating by Mark. And then we talk and we connect again and, and then you fast forward a year. But Laura wasn't the only character Rachel created. Rachel had a whole host of fake people in her life. And when one of them overstayed their welcome, she would kill them off.

The Rachel Murdersjavier Leiva: Um, to talk about, because in your show you talk about her almost as a, an assassin that kills off all these people throughout her life, and we kind of touched on some of them, but it, it was really interesting to hear it the way you talked about it. Like all these people that, that quote unquote died in, in her wake.

Harry: I call them Rachel Killings. Rachel Murders in, in order to facilitate her story, she ended up killing a bunch of people off the reference I make. I think in episode one or episode two, I say that Rachel has killed off so many people in our story that if the killings were real, she would be the most prolific female serial killer of our time, rivaling her peer.

Speaker: And then your dear friend Laura dies, you know, colon cancer and she takes her own life. And you had this client, Samantha, and this client, Stacy and both of them, one took a life, one was killed by her brother. She began killing people off. She killed her sister. She killed Bobby. She killed Bobby's parents. She killed Laura. She killed our baby. And she, you know what I mean? Like in, on, and on and on, and, and it's just, it's part of the act. Um, you know, you, your sister in the car crash and like you go through it and you go, she's created this incredible life of tragedy. And not one bit of it is true, and she is an assassin. Don't get me wrong, she's an emotional assassin. Another sex worker, Eileen warns, right? You saw a monster. You know the story. You're a true crime guy. It seems nothing about what Rachel says is real. Including her professions Wait till you get a load of this.... That's after the break I'm, uh, you know, I'm

Javier: yeah. So help, because the audience is gonna have a hard time with this, you know, because there, you meet her, she's, she's. Into pageants, but she's also an escort.

Speaker: A Decade of DisappearanceJavier Leiva: And now, you know, she has this dormant period where you don't really see her from, you know, like the early like 2012 maybe or to, to 2021, almost 10 years later. And in that time period, she is like amassed to hell of a resume,

Harry: Yeah. So let me give you the, let me give you the history on that so the audience understands it.

Speaker: The Lawyer and Nurse FacadeHarry: When I met her in 2001, she wanted to always go to law school. The plan was to do some sort of classes so that she could get to the point where she would take the jd, which is the degree you get when you become an attorney. So she was working towards that in maybe a year or so later. She said she was gonna get a nursing license so that she could pay for law school. So she was, she had these two things in her background that she worked from the beginning with me. One was becoming a nurse and the other was law school. Law school to me, was plausible because she had paid for it. It was a number of years. It wasn't like, Hey, I went to law school and it wasn't the Kim Kardashian law School program. It was a different program. And, and she, it took her a long time, but she got it. She passed the bar and she went to go work for this never husband's father in his firm. And, and she also had a nursing license, an LVN license, according to her. So. Dinner with DeceptionHarry: When we met in August of 2021, it wasn't like she just miraculously had had become a lawyer and become a nurse and become this woman. She had these things set up in the plot line. So we sit down, I'm like, tell me about your life. I'm a lawyer. I'm doing real estate law. I'm doing bunch of deals. And you know, are you a true crime fan? Of course I am. And she said, you know, the Kristen Smart Case? And she lays the groundwork that she is a friend with Dan Dow, a friend of Dan Dow. She is a friend of Dan Dow, who's the district attorney in San Luis Obispo. And Dan thinks so much of her as an attorney, a, a real estate attorney, that he invites her to sit second chair in the Kristen Smart case, like, wow, I don't know anything about the law, but holy hell.

Javier: you had the receipts. That's okay. So I, I didn't want to tell you this right away because like I didn't want to derail us, but she reminds me of a female Frank aba. Now, do you know who Frank Aba now is?

Harry: Yeah. He was catching me. If you, he's catch me if you can.

Javier: So remember, he, he was a pilot doctor, lawyer, professor.

Speaker: So she's actually a pilot right now.

Harry: She told people, she's a pilot.

Javier: she told people.

Harry: She, she said to people at the airport, listen, I'm a. I'm a helicopter pilot. I fly for Mercy Air. I'm also a trauma nurse. That's the scam. She was running simultaneously to me telling the girls at the airport, she's a pilot, telling them that she's a nurse. They're like, holy cow.

Speaker: She's a trauma nurse for Mercy Air. And she's a helicopter pilot. Like she gets hero status immediately and she's working with us, throwing bags. Well, she's doing that so she can get the benefits. And she said, I'm doing this so I can get the benefits, you know, and I need the extra money. I'm a single mom, and I see you shaking your head. And everyone else that hears it shakes their head. And I shook my head when I heard the story. There's no evidence that Rachel has a pilot license. But she is a American Airlines baggage handler. Here is one of Rachel's former co-workers and a clip from the podcast The Rachel Cancer scam

Fake Pilotnatalie: I do remember there was one story. She told me, I have a second job. She was supposed to come hang out with me there, and that night she canceled on me because she was flying a helicopter.

Speaker: We would always brag about her, like, it's so incredible that you're a helicopter pilot, but you're also starting at the airport. I never question any of it because we have such a wide array of people working with us that have all different qualifications in, in legitimate backgrounds. It was, it is a very realistic job that someone at the airport would have a background like that. And my coworker started to question her and they were asking her extra proof, you know, we wanna see your pilot's license, we wanna see your nursing license. And I have a text from one of my best friends at work, and she was the one who asked for that. And Rachel sent her through a text, the images of those, and they all looked into them and they were all false. It was photoshopped. I mean, I have it in my phone, like I can look at the message and. If you zoom in, you can see that the number is flurry. Um, the names don't match. It's not the sitting spot. And I, I took student pilot lessons for a while. I have an actual pilot, student pilot card, and I showed her a picture of mine compared to let Rachel sent her. And you can see a very clear difference. That information is accessible, and the stuff she provided to my team when they asked her was clearly fake and never did she produce those in person. You know, she, she did and still does to this day, shows up to work at the airport and it's, if nothing is wrong, not a care in the world, she's, you know, at the ticket counter giggling and laughing, and RU is up there with her. They don't care. It seems like Rachel had everyone fooled. But eventually, her house of cards collapsed.

How This Comes To A Headnatalie: Mark, the man Rachel had been married to for more than 20 years. They had four kids together. It's now 2023, and Rachel was gone again.

Harry: Rachel's been disappearing, not home a lot. Telling Mark she's with friends, with coworkers. Mark's at that point decided to utilize, find my phone, and realizes Rachel's at a home in Paso Robles up the road.

Speaker: He goes, bangs on the door. Rachel's car's in the driveway. Mark, RAchel's husband tells the guy, I am looking for my wife and Rachel doesn't come out. Eventually she comes out, she goes home. A few days later, Masrk finds the guy all over rachel. Mark gets out of his car, a fist fight ensues. The guys each end up knocking each other down. After the fight, Mark goes to pick up their daughter Madison up from the airport. She asks, dad, why is your face all busted up. And Mark said, I had a fight with mom's boyfriend. Madison, Rachel's daiughter asked, who Harry?

Harry: Marx says, who the fuck's Harry?

Speaker: That's when Mark realized Rachel was not cheating on him with one but two different guys.

Madison's Secretharry: The oldest kid, the daughter, formerly known as Madison, knew me because she spotted my Instagram account.

Speaker: She saw a note in Rachel's car a year and a half ago, Here's Madison,Rachel and Mark's daughter talking with Harry on the Rachel Scam Podcast. MADISON DISCOVERS HARRY ON IGI had gone through your Instagram and found it and I found photos of you and my mom in Santa Barbara and I was like, huh, that's kind of weird because my mom does overnight nursing. That's a little odd. I looked with the comments and I looked through the, the title of the post and it was like with my racial or quick getaway or so had asked, are you guys dating? And you had said yes. And my mom had responded with like a kissy face emoji as if like, confirming you guys are dating. Oh, oh, my mom's cheating on my dad. Okay. your friend Harry, he seems to think you guys are dating. And she said, what? I, I was like, yeah, they're the, they're the post, uh, about you two dating. And she was like, he's, he's crazy. That, that's absolutely crazy. He, he's obsessed with me. And I was like, yeah, what's crazy that you commented a Kippie baby father, like confirming it? And she like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Madison Change Namejavier Leiva: So tell me about Madison, because I thought that was a pretty mind blowing story about her name change. Like she's coming to you now, you're talking to her, and she knows the truth about her mom at this point. And tell me about the origins of her name, Madison, and where that came from.

Harry: When I met Rachel in 2001 in Houston, you know, she was working as an escort. She was also working as a dancer and of. Model in adult men's magazines. I didn't know the dancing and modeling part, but when I was introduced to her, she introduced herself as Madison, and then we had our one encounter paid for it, and then she gave me her real name and her phone number, and that was it.

Speaker: I never knew her as Madison ever again. Fast forward to 2012 when we reconnect. She said, I, you know, I've had four kids and she's kind of going through, this is my life. I did the same thing. And I said, what are your kids' names? And she said, my oldest is Madison. And we kinda laughed about it. I'm like, wait a minute. You named your daughter after her, your escort stripper model name. Really thought that was kind of odd. Daughter?: I remember being on the phone with my dad and we, he was just sharing stories with me about how he met my mom and he was like, oh, when I, when I met her, she, she was a, an exotic dancer at the club I worked at, and she actually went by the name Madison and I was pretty disgusted and I immediately was like, okay, I gotta change my name. Like there's, there's no way. Madison has since changed her name. After Mark discovers Rachel had been seeing Harry. He decides to give this stranger a call. Keep in mind, Harry thinks Rachel is dying in the hospital.

Harry: On December 20th, 2021, which was 563 days after her ambulance ride to French Hospital, I, on that day, I had not been hearing from her over the last month very much. Sometimes once a week or twice a week. Remember, we had gone every single day, all day long, texting and you know, the brain surgeries and this, and she was feeling weak and whatever.

Speaker: She made every excuse. I hadn't been hearing from her a lot. So on that day, my office called me and said, I've got Mark so-and-so on the phone. And I said, send it to voicemail. Like I was shocked for a minute. I'm like, send it to voicemail. What does he want? And then I like, I watched my blood pressure on my watch go up when I saw the phone call That's when out of the blue, Harry gets a call from mark. Come in from him and I'm like, uh. At this point, all I know about Mark is that he is the guy that beat the shit outta her in 2012. And I thought he's calling because he knows I'm involved with her and this is gonna be ugly. This is gonna be ugly for him. It ain't gonna be ugly for me. Um, that's the mode I go into. I went from really emotional and really sad stuff to like, what do you want? Let's go outside and discuss it. That's where I go and I call him back. I said, Hey, mark, it's Harry. What can I do for you? And then it dawned on me like, oh, this could be the call that Rachel's dead. I, we saw your information, know, whatever. And he said, I understand, you know, my wife. And I said,

Javier: Your

Harry: I know you.

Speaker: What? I said, I, I don't know why the fuck you're calling me. What the nature of your phone call is, but she's not your wife. She left you 12 years ago when you beat the shit out of her.

Javier: and you're engaged to her.

Harry: He said, what are you talking about? He said, who is she to you? I said, she's my fiance.

Speaker: And he said, fiance. He said, when's the last time you saw her? I said, I saw her before the, the day she started cancer treatment on May 5th, 2021. 2022. In Santa Barbara the last time we saw each other, and she's in the hospital now in protective isolation. And he said the hospital, she's never been sick a day in her life. And I said, you don't know what you're talking about. And he said, I'm not looking to fight with you. He said, this phone number you're calling me from, it's your cell phone. I said, yeah. He sends me a video of Rachel walking in the house, the ring camera, the night before with roses in her hand from her new boyfriend Russ. Then he said to me, do you know the name Russ so-and-so? And I said, no, I don't know that name. I said, who is that? He said, that's Rachel's boyfriend. That's where I found her last week and she's been there for like the last couple months on and off every night. And this is a lot to digest. I gotta get back to you, gimme a minute. So I text Rachel. Said, Hey, you know, Russ and I haven't talked to her in like a week at this point. I said, do you know Russ so-and-so? She responds to me immediately. She said, no, I don't know who that is. And I said, are you sure you don't know Russ? And I give his last name. She said, I have no idea who that is. Pause. And then I said, I just got a call from Mark. You know your husband, mark? And she said, uh, he's, what did he want? He's been coming around causing trouble. I said coming around the ICU coming around the hospital coming around where like, alright, you wanna play?

Javier: you were the girl in the bubble like

Harry: yes. Yeah. And at this point I'm like, you want to screw around?

Speaker: You wanna be sarcastic, you wanna lie? Let's go. You're not sick. You were never in the hospital, you never had cancer, you're not paralyzed. You never had any brain surgery. Where are you right now? And I'm sitting there staring at my phone waiting for the bubbles to pop up so I could see that she's texting. She said, Harry, my situation has recently changed and I've chosen not to include you. I'm sorry. I've been sitting in this house for 563 days, sleeping with a phone underneath my pillow every night waiting for a call that you may die. You may not have made it. I need to get to the hospital. I need to come say goodbye. And you send me a message by text after I find out that you're a fucking liar. Okay. Like what do you do with that? How do you reconcile that? I wanted to spend my life with her. I was. online to order a special bed and to do some handicap, you know, stuff around the house and, and, and ways to accommodate her when she can get outta the hospital. Like I'm, I'm looking at the future and she's looking at her next con, I can't explain it to you any better than that. So when the season began for season two. I was pissed. Daughter?: And Mark, her soon to be ex, is still trying to piece it all together. In this clip from the Rachel Cancer Scam, Harry asks Mark if he saw any red flags.

Harry: How did you not know? What was going on with her? How did you not see these red flags? Why didn't you respond? I guess, you know, I'll start with you and say, uh uh. You know, when did you know that that something was off?

Speaker: How did you not know you're a smart guy? Talk to me about that. Mark?: Well, now I'm starting to kind of doubt that

Harry: this will, this kind of thing will do that to you, right?

Speaker: Mark?: Yeah. You know, you start to second guess yourself after a while. I mean, I was on the phone with my mom last night and she said the same thing to me. How did you not know? And I'm like, I, I, I said, you know, it's, it's real easy to overlook things when you are engulfed in life, um, because, you know, running a business. and I think I just got, so, I. Enveloped in life and responsibility and making sure that my kids had everything they need. Making sure Rachel had what she needed, making sure that everybody else had what they needed. It didn't offer a lot of time for me to sit back and reflect on, you know, is my wife. He stopped himself. Mark explains that he was thinking ahead... at one day sellign his company... retiring. He was so focused on the future and everyone who depended on him that he failed to see what was in front of him. Mark?: Just making sure that everything was done and nothing was slipping through the cracks, but I just didn't even look at my own backyard at the cracks that were there. Mark still can't get a divorceHarry: someone that I trust, and we both live simple existences and I'm grateful for that. But with this thing with Rachel, when people say, I'm sorry this happened to you. Uh, you know, we were talking about Mark a minute ago and, and all of this with Mark and him finding out one of my go-to answers when people say, I'm so sorry this happened to you. You poor guy. I can't believe she would do this. I always say the same thing. I deflect and I say, well, imagine for a minute what it's like for her actual husband, still husband guy who still can't get her his divorce done yet. For 22 years, he was married to a woman that lied at every turn that had 10 affairs that faked pregnancy. She faked 11 pregnancies that we can find at this

Javier: And she's, and she's technically still married with Mark, is that what you're

Harry: Correct? Correct, correct.

Javier: And why, why can't he get a divorce? Like

Harry: They're in process. It's going on right now. It's just, it's an ugly fight.

Speaker: what would happen if i called rachel?Harry: no, it's fine. But my, my feeling is that you would have a conversation with her. She would say, listen, he's a liar, he's a stalker. He was obsessed with me. I called several numbers associated with Rachel, and each one was a bust.

Motivationjavier Leiva: No. Yeah, but I'm saying like when we talk about, like when people say, why would she do all this? Was it money? Was it power? What? What was it? What's her motivation? Attention.

Harry: I'm gonna have him for a scam. And by the way, not for money, not for a boat, not for a car, not for a house. I lied to Harry for attention. That's what she told Mark Gross. No, it's, this was attention seeking behavior. I'll send you the text so you

Javier: No. Yeah, but I'm saying like when we talk about, like

Harry: It's attention. It's, I never got enough attention.

Speaker: The last episode is gonna be this tape. I have an hour recording of Mark and Rachel, where Rachel is just admitting to everything she's done. It's almost like being able to say you want the receipts, you want the biggest receipt. Here's the biggest receipt. Here's Rachel on tape saying, I don't know why I cheated. I just feel badly about myself. I want attention. I needed attention. And even through out all this, after everything she's done, I get the feeling that Harry still is not over Rachel.

Javier: you mentioned that you do have a new relationship, but I doubt, and I don't know you, I just bet you that you'll ever allow yourself to fall that deep with somebody again,

Harry: You know, I don't wanna utter those words to the woman I'm seeing, but the reality is, is that, you know, I'll never allow myself to be in that spot again. And I love the girl that I'm with. She's delightful and she's sweet, and she has been with me. The entire existence of our relationship has been the Rachel Cancer scam.

Speaker: She's in this picture right

Javier: Yeah, I was

Harry: of us. That's her, and she's adorable, and she's sweet, and she just loves me and just wants to be with me, and the feeling is mutual. And I don't know that I'll ever get married. And, and I don't know what forever means at this point. I jokingly say to her, why do you threaten me with a life sentence? you know, I know that's not what any woman wants to hear, but you know, I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I'm here. I'm grateful that I found

Speaker: Mark still can't get a divorceHarry: someone that I trust, and we both live simple existences and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed this episode, check out the Rachel Cancer Scam podcast. I interviewed Harry for more than 3 hours and some how boiled it down to under 40 mins. Pretty remarkable feat. Trust me when I say, this is the cliff notes version. We barely scratched the story. If you want to learn more, find Rachel Cancer Scam stories wherever you get your podcasts.