LaDonna's Surrogates part 3

Speaker: Introduction This series is titled LaDonna's Surrogates, possibly the most boring title I could come up with, but it seems to resonate with LaDonna supporters, so I'm sticking with it. In the first two episodes, we profiled surrogate numero uno, Dennis McCaslin, a grammar challenge blogger who posts mugshots of recent arrests and for some reason that can't be explained trash about all of LaDonna's enemies. When he's not tarnishing people's reputation, he enjoys kicking back and watching local wrestlers lube up and attack each other. Dennis McCaslin is just one of the handful of people who have staked his reputation to support LaDonna at all costs. But you have to ask yourself, how the heck does she find these people? If I were accused of half the things LaDonna's accused of, I don't think I would have such vocal supporters. I wouldn't expect it either. That's a tall ask. For LaDonna, recruiting surrogates must be challenging. How does she do it? Today, we're going to talk about a woman who was actively being groomed to be LaDonna's next surrogate. Luckily for her, my series came out just in the nick of time to prevent that from happening. I'm Javier Leyva, and this is Pretend. Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva:

Javier: how did you meet LaDonna?

Lexi Kakis: So I started working for a company called Uncovered.

Speaker: Meet Lexi Kakis

Lexi Kakis: And the first case I ever researched Was the Melissa Witt case. So that was very much like my entry point into true crime.

Speaker: And then I reached out to her because I had a couple questions. And then one thing kind of led to another when I was done with my research. I sent it over to her and she reviewed it and it just kind of went from there.

Javier: was that when she was working with Alicia or post

Lexi Kakis: pre Alicia. It was like 2021.

Javier: Hmm.

Lexi Kakis: Like, I think I met her in like March of 2021.

Speaker: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva:

Lexi Kakis: And what's interesting about the Melissa Witt case is I was born in October of 1994. Melissa went missing in December of 1994. So I was drawn to that aspect of it, and so that was one of the things that resonated with me about the case, among other things.

Speaker: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: And so then what, what happened after? I mean, kind of describe how the relationship evolved.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I think just kind of like we had some similar friends other podcasters things like that Um, I met her for the first time in person at crime con vegas.

Speaker: Javier Leiva:

Lexi Kakis: but we've had, like, Zoom calls, and I think just from the work that I did, she saw that I was capable of producing a certain level and standard of work, doing it ethically, responsibly, things like that, that I think she really admired.

Speaker: so it just kind of blossomed sort of from there.

Javier: Does she ever pay you or was this all free?

Lexi Kakis: No, it wasn't like that. It was like I was truly working for Uncover and it was more so, Hey, like, here's another

Javier: Oh, oh, okay. So you were just like being helpful,

Lexi Kakis: of hers. Yeah, exactly.

Javier: Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. So you were doing your own thing and you were just being helpful with, with her. Did you have any negative? I mean, you've heard the series, I imagine. Did you ever experience any of that?

Lexi Kakis: no. So that was, I think, what was so interesting and both shocking from other people's experiences. but I think, too, knowing now that, like, she wanted True Crime to be her career and things like that, like, I was, you know, supportive of the work that she was doing at the time. I didn't realize that there was all these, you know, issues with what she was doing. The crime scene footage and all these, you know, just unethical things, she wasn't sharing that with me and I should mention that I never saw a piece of documentation from the case file. I was only ever working off of publicly available information. I did personally try to request the case file twice.

Speaker: One was probably in 2021. And she mentioned it to me at one point, because I guess the, someone from the Portsmouth Police Office, uh, department was like, Oh, this person wanted to request the file, and then they ended up denying me, which is fine. I mean, I kind of, that's a common thing that happens anyway. And then in 2024 again, this year, I tried to request it just around when all this stuff was happening and the doc, and I kind of expected I'd get denied for that too, Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: That is So I never got to see documentation.

Speaker: Even though she had it. So she didn't share it with you, which is like kind of counter to everything I've been reporting. Cause in my reporting, she was sharing it willy nilly with, with everyone, or at least with Patty Rush. And I've seen those screenshots. So it sounds like she might've learned her lesson or maybe got spooked.

Lexi Kakis: Maybe. I don't know. I think also, too, like, I'm not local to her, whereas Patty was. So I think that's a different thing. Like I'm in New York, so I think it was just different context and like anytime we did meet, it was typically like on zoom or, or, or whatever. so it was just different.

Javier: So, why would you want to insert yourself into this? If you, if you've managed to, like, skirt past all the harassment, why would you want to talk to me?

Lexi Kakis: fair game, uh, fair question. I think partially because I think my perspective is different, whereas a lot of people you were speaking with were more so in parts of her past, that have now kind of become part of her present, whereas I think I was working on stuff that was present and future.

Javier: Right.

Lexi Kakis: Um, and also knowing that like, I, my name is associated with her from the foreword that I wrote, I'm not thrilled about that now, I'm not going to do anything about it, but like, I do kind of want to reclaim my name a little bit, of like, yes, I did that at the time, but like, I do genuinely care about doing cold case research the right way, with ethical standards, and doing it responsibly and all that, and that is something that is something that's so important to me, that I didn't pick up on her not doing it that way.

Speaker: Lexie Kakis didn't come on my show to badmouth LaDonna and join the pileup. That's certainly not her goal. She worked with LaDonna for years and never experienced any harassment, and even wrote the foreword to LaDonna Humphrey's latest book. It's a very different perspective than you've heard so far. But one thing I want to make clear, to my knowledge, Lexi never did any of LaDonna's dirty work. To me, she was just a

Javier: your name is kind of associated with her. People could automatically assume that, that you're, that you feel one way or the other, but, and you're also presenting this different perspective, right? Where you didn't experience a harassment. You, you know, I mean, like that's really noteworthy.

Speaker: I mean, I guess I'm curious about now that you've listened to the series, Um, Lexi Kakis:

Javier: what are your feelings about LaDonna and some of the accusations that have been brought forward?

Lexi Kakis: I mean, truthfully, I think so much was presented that I I really feel like I would be a f Like, even if a fraction of it is true, it's still bad. Like, you know, it's it's not And I think her attempts at trying to save her image and things like that have also been incredibly disappointing. and kind of immature in, in her way of going about it.

Speaker: So it's just like, it's sad. But I also think there's a lot of merit to what everyone else is saying. And I think it's interesting to have all these different types of people, different as like, parts of her wor of her life coming forward. Like, that can't all not be true. Like, it would take an

Javier: like,

Lexi Kakis: you know, effort to, to, to be doing that, and I don't think these people are doing that.

Javier: Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's two sides to every story. And I love the fact that you're presenting a different aspect that we haven't presented yet. So I would like to show you some of the screenshots that I found because I asked Alicia when you reached out to me, I was like, Hey, have you ever heard of Lexi?

Speaker: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: she said I know her when I asked her and and I said well, what's her story and Alicia said well

Speaker: Yeah that you were that you were somebody that you were in touch with LaDonna before her and during the time that she was working with and Let's see And then she kind of mentions as she goes she talked about Lexi as an annoying But helpful groupie.

Lexi Kakis: Interesting, because she never made that known to me. Yeah.

Javier: hmm. Now that gets worse. So, let's see.

Speaker: Now she shows me an actual screenshot, and I can share this with you. And LaDonna said, Lexi, Yeah, she's a big fan girl, Sai. And then the next one is, Lexi Kakis:

Javier: her name is Lexie Kakis. I would not, however, tell her about Randall or that you are working on a suspect for the Witt case. She is jonesing bad to get her teeth into this case. s She's super young and while she did a great job on the timeline, I do not trust her.

Lexi Kakis: That's so interesting, and also so disheartening because she never, like, she really played the two sides of that. Um, and

Javier: because you never got that vibe?

Lexi Kakis: No, never, never. And I also, to clear my name from that perspective, I was not trying to be like a fangirl, it was just genuine passion for like the cold case advocacy, the research, and, and that side of it.

Speaker: It wasn't like I looked up to her like she was some, I don't know, that to me is interesting and, and upsetting to hear too, but not surprising in the grand scheme of what we know now.

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to get your reaction because, you know, we started this conversation as like, you're saying neutral things about her, which is like something that we haven't heard, not even like positive things, but like just neutral things.

Speaker: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva:

Lexi Kakis: And my point of speaking with you isn't to like, destroy her life or anything like that, but I think it's just a different perspective. and I will say to that too, you know, the moment that Alicia was out of the picture, and by no means is this a dig at Alicia, but like suddenly, my friendship status with her se seemed to be, you know, upgraded, so, you know, you can talk from both sides of your face that like, you know, I'm a groupie on this, that, the other, but like when you needed more people for the wit case, you know, you were quick to include me in that, you didn't have to,

Javier: I think she misjudges people a lot. I mean, this is my perspective. This is my only personal opinion. I think she mistook Alicia as somebody who would just tag along with her and that she could manipulate her personal life story and that Alicia wouldn't ever fight back. I bet she never even imagined that Alicia would do that.

Speaker: Would have the backbone to stand up to her. And then she probably thought that of you too. You know, she just assumes that people are weak. And, and then David McClam, she looks at him. I mean, the guy, I don't like to talk bad about him because I don't want to like insult people with low intelligence, you know, but I mean, she found, she finally found the guy that would do anything for her. for her, and then David McCaslin with the stupid blog, you know, these are people that will just bow down and do her work. And it doesn't sound like you and Alicia ever collapsed, you know,

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, yeah,

Speaker: It's creepy to see the parallels. Just like Alicia, LaDonna roped Lexi in to produce one of her true crime pet projects. In fact, right before all this went down, LaDonna and Lexi were even supposed to co write a book together, just like LaDonna and Alicia did on the book Strangled Book Lexi Kakis:

Javier: So that's interesting. I I didn't even realize that so she wanted you to write a book with her

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. I mean, I think in some ways, uh, she wanted me to become the new stand in Alicia, I guess?

Speaker: and I mean, and also, too, like, she included me in things, so as much as she wants to say that I was a groupie, she was the one who invited me to be on the board of her non profit, and write the forward for her book and do these things, so, like, it's just interesting for her to turn around and say that.

Javier: Yeah. You weren't expecting that, right? From this

Lexi Kakis: that's a Yeah, yeah, that was a shock. I've never heard that before from anyone. But like, knowing what we know now, especially from the last episode you did, like, you know, the way she talks about people, you know, positively to their face, and then she's nasty behind their back, and at some point that will catch up to you.

Speaker: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: oh, the board, you mentioned she approached you about becoming a board member. What, which organization was that for?

Lexi Kakis: All the Lost Girls.

Javier: And did you ever, um, become a board member?

Lexi Kakis: So I sat in on one meeting, but no paperwork was ever signed. She said she was going to send me paperwork, and I wasn't going to push the issue, because, like, I had other things going on, and I also forgot about it. It wasn't like there was meetings every week. You know, it was one meeting that was in, I think, December of, of last year, and then we were supposed to meet again, and then it never happened for one reason or another, and there was no reschedule, and

Javier: Mm

Lexi Kakis: And, you know, whatever.

Speaker: Um, I do have all the meeting notes from that because I was the one who did the, who took the meeting notes. Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: So it's interesting you, you go to this one meeting, you're taking notes. Did it seem to you that the other people in the meeting, the other board members, that they had official roles? Or did they ask you to take notes or you just took notes because you felt like you needed

Lexi Kakis: volunteered me. She volunteered me to do it. I was like, that's fine. I'm not, I'm fuzzy on the timing of it, but, like, so it wasn't a big deal, I didn't really mind, um, I mean, like, I've also never sat in on a non profit board meeting, so I didn't have anything to

Speaker: compare it to, so, so, so there's that, um, I mean, it didn't seem very formal, necessarily, she had a, I mean, in true LaDonna lot of big ideas, but then, like, you know, there was very little execution on, you know,

Javier: So I'm curious because you probably attended one of the few all the lost girls meetings that have ever taken place

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, probably.

Javier: Did they talk I mean because all the lost girls has a very narrow scope Women who have been strangled right and as far as I know the only case that they've covered is the Missy Wick case Were you talking about other girls who have been strangled or were you talking about?

Speaker: Uh, LaDonna's, uh, true crime ambitions. Like what, what was the topic? I'm

Lexi Kakis: So it was a few different, of course, yeah, so it was a few different things.

Speaker: I think it was twofold. It was a non profit, but then she also wanted to be the production company side to be the machine that produces all of these documentaries. That's great. So, it was a non profit, but I think she also, I don't know if it was a separate company or if it was just the title, but she did have

Javier: But I guess the assumption is that it seems like it's a like a shell non profit because All the Lost Girls has not, to my knowledge, covered any of the strangled cases that I

Lexi Kakis: No, it's only been Melissa Witt. It's only been,

Javier: And, and it seems like a vehicle to, to get her production company off the ground.

Speaker: It seems to me that LaDonna Humphrey and her surrogate Amy Smith are using their non profit All the Lost Girls as a way to fund LaDonna's true crime career. Even after my series Who's Afraid of LaDonna Humphrey was released, LaDonna was hunting for her next case. One of the stories she had her eyes set on was the Dana Stidham case. Dana Stidham was an 18 year old girl who disappeared on July 25, 1989, after leaving the grocery store in Bella Vista, Arkansas. Her body was later found three months later. No arrests have ever been made in connection with her

Lexi Kakis: I was on a team.

Speaker: For the Dana Stidham case, which was apparently a name that was mentioned in the wit file And that was gonna be like one of her next projects and she was gonna do a companion book and also a documentary on that We had many meetings, but not much ever got done on it. Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva:

Lexi Kakis: So it was interesting to me too that she could never get cooperation from local police, and at that point too you would think, having worked on the wit case, you would have had some established relationships to make that, like, not an impossible feat.

Speaker: another case LaDonna was working on was the case of Clinton Nelson. In 2016, Clinton Nelson attended a house party in Louisiana. He was never seen again. Earlier this year, LaDonna announced that she was working on a documentary about this case (https://www.ksla.com/2021/08/31/bossier-detectives-still-searching-man-who-went-missing-after-house-party-15-years-ago/) Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Even after my brutal hour interview with LaDonna, she couldn't help but plug her next project. 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: that years I had been studying the case of, and I've got to go. I did tell you I had a A hard stop at 315. I've got to pick up kids, but, um, the case of Nathaniel Barjona was always really interested in that and I'm actually working on a book about him and I don't know what you know about him, but he was a pretty horrific cannibal and a child murderer and his roommate actually saw a lot of stuff. Let me interrupt her pitch for a second. Remember how LaDonna was suggesting that Daniel Watson killed Melissa Witt because his roommate noticed that he had a Mickey Mouse watch? LaDonna even told the U. S. Sun, a major publication, that she was in contact with Melissa Witt's killer's roommate. Now she's announcing a new podcast about roommates who live with serial killers. 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: So it's pretty fascinating. We're going to kick it off with, um, Nathaniel Barjona and then we've got 11 other stories about People who were roommates with what they later found out to be serial killers. So yeah, I'm excited about

Javier: But it's not about Melissa

Speaker: Witt, right? 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: No, it has nothing to do with Melissa Witt Javier Leiva: I have reached out to some of the victim's families involved in these cases to ask them if they are aware of the serious allegations made against LaDonna Humphrey. A cousin of Dana Stigham, The Bella Vista woman who was killed told me that they signed a contract with LaDonna, but that the project has stalled out. The person who runs a Clinton Nelson Facebook group told me that they are still actively working on the documentary. Let's get back to my conversation with Lexie Kakis. Lexi Kakis:

Javier: the reason why I ask her all these questions is because you kind of had that insight of like you, you were around her after Alicia. And so were you around her while she was with David McClam or,

Lexi Kakis: No, I mean, he just popped up sort of out of nowhere. Well, I don't mean to be rude, but like, yeah.

Javier: bless his heart. So, But yeah, but I just wonder, I guess what my listeners are probably wondering is, if she did this to the Melissa Witt case, right? Like, what is she working on next? Like, who is she trying to capitalize on, on their story?

Speaker: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva:

Lexi Kakis: And even to that point, too, like, you know, because sometimes she has these big ideas, but then, obviously, sometimes on the execution of things is where, you know, things fall flat.

Speaker: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: Okay, so Alicia Leaves, you kind of worked with her a little bit. Yeah. You know, informally after Alicia leaves, but what, what kind of contact have you had since the podcast or right before the podcast

Lexi Kakis: So I saw her at CrimeCon Nashville. So

Javier: this year's and that's, yeah. Remind people the timing of this,

Lexi Kakis: this, I think, was the weekend that the trailer dropped. And, which was

Javier: the trailer for my show,

Lexi Kakis: for your show. And, like, she was, she, you can tell, I mean, it was obvious she was spooked. She was really concerned. She was worried about it. and I started seeing it other places online, too, just from other people sharing it, like, that sort of thing.

Speaker: Um, and then on one of the nights, I don't remember if it was a Friday or the Saturday of, of ClamCon, she had an off site event that there were some of us, and most of it was just her being super upset about all of this, and kind of just like, really just like, needing the sympathy and the support. And like, on one hand, yeah, you want to be a friend to someone, but on the other hand, when I look back at it now, it was like, I am almost 30. You are 20 years older than me. This is just weird. Like, you should have, there should be other people in your life that you should be going to for some of this. Like, she was concerned. It's like, will everybody hate me? And whatever. And it was just, it's just strange to kind of like, need that level of support from people. Bye.

Javier: So it's not like she was trying to, so, and by the way, listeners, I did not know she was going to CrimeCon. I didn't time the podcast so it could come out the weekend of Crime Con. That was very coincidental. But you're saying that she was walking around Crime Con and it wasn't like she was, uh, she was acknowledging that this was going on.

Speaker: It wasn't like she was trying to, like, ignore it. It was very obvious that there was this podcast

Lexi Kakis: Yeah,

Javier: and she would talk to you about it.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was, it was in my circle of people that I was there with, like, it was a very, it was a topic of discussion, um, and even to, like, she, she left early because of it, um, I think on Saturday at some point she left or, or Sunday, I don't really remember, but she left early.

Speaker: and then, when we were all home, I think not long after, we were supposed to have, like, a meeting for the documentary, and that went quiet. The documentary for the Stidham case.

Javier: and then it just kind of petered off and you never heard from

Lexi Kakis: and then and then the the show kind of dropped I think maybe within the first two episodes, whatever the timing was Suddenly, you know, you were all kicked out of the group. There was no, it was a Facebook Messenger group, we were all kicked out of the group. No final message or anything, or no heads up.

Speaker: And we all got individual messages from Amy, kind of being like, Hey, like, wanted to see if you're still interested in, you know, working on this project with us. And I was like, you know, I don't really have the time for right now, which wasn't a lie necessarily, Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis:

Javier: so let me get a better understanding. I want to dwell a little bit more on this Crime Con thing. If, if my podcast wouldn't have dropped at all, like let's say my podcast didn't exist, what were her plans at Crime Con that year?

Lexi Kakis: She just had a booth, so she was not speaking. Um, it was just her, the deep dark secrets table that she had there.

Javier: No, no David, no Amy.

Lexi Kakis: Amy was with her.

Javier: So it was her and Amy. She was supposed to have a booth there. Did she go forward? Like did she actually meet people during podcast role or?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, yeah, she had a table, she did like the whole, you know, thing you do when you're on podcast row and float around, say hello, you know, whatever it is. Um, but I think once the podcast dropped, I think that spooked her, and I think, and I don't know if she was getting questions from other people, I don't know how that, you know, people were confronting her about it, or asking, or whatever, but I think she felt the need that, like, she overstayed her welcome there, I think. Um,

Javier: I mean, I felt awkward for her, you know?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, it's an awkward situation, I think, just, like, as far as human experiences go, like, it's just an awkward spot to be in.

Javier: want to be in that, in CrimeCon.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. I mean, I don't blame her. If that was, if I was in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be there either. Um, you're kind of a sitting duck, in a way.

Speaker: actually, at that meetup the next morning, she's like, I have all the proof, so she sent it to me. And I, I think the next morning I skimmed it, but like, you know, you're, you're peopled out from being at CrimeCon. Like, I'm not trying to do, like, a deep dive on this. And, and, at a certain point, it's a lot of he said, she said, you know? she was also advocating for someone to do some sort of journalism or advocacy around this. And I remember specifically saying, like, I didn't say this to her, but I said this to someone else, where it's like, first of all, no one's gonna do that. Like, you know, it, I mean, well, she had someone do it, but like, it's just, there's so many other things. To put energy towards instead of doing like a counter episode, you know podcast or whatever Yeah,

Javier: so let me get this straight. The moment my podcast drops, she's at Crime Con and she's already formulating the idea for this reaction podcast, this rebuttal podcast that ultimately

Lexi Kakis: she wanted someone to do it. She wanted someone to do it No one stepped up and be like, oh i'm gonna do it No one wanted to do that,

Javier: Who would want to

Lexi Kakis: already had oh you're putting yourself out You know, to draw it. Like, it's,

Javier: And why is she not doing it?

Lexi Kakis: Beats me. I mean, she made that one episode about, uh, Alicia that I, seemed to me more so just bullying and being nasty than it was really trying to, like, clear her name.

Speaker: And I think one thing that makes me, like, showed me a lot about who she is is just the way she responded to things. Like, it was just so childish. I mean, I was the one who told her to take down the photo of Alicia on Twitter that she posted in one of the threads that I'm sure somebody has a screenshot of. I have the screenshot. It's a tweet where LaDonna Humphrey posted an image of Alicia's death fetish video with the sole purpose of humiliating Alicia

Lexi Kakis: So I was like, that shit's not gonna age well for you. It's not

Javier: like in what reality, you know, that's the thing about these, uh, vindictive, like narcissistic people that they want to make an argument and they're not even thinking about the consequences or how it's perceived by normal people, right? Like normal people don't think that posting a screenshot of a girl who says that she was sexually assaulted during a death fetish porn video.

Speaker: would be tasteful as a rebuttal point, you

Lexi Kakis: But also, who are you to to to say if she was or wasn't assaulted? What is what does that gain you? What is the goal to that? That accomplishes nothing.

Speaker: That doesn't solve Melissa Witt's case. That doesn't get any more tips. That does nothing. That's just you trying to stand your ground on something that doesn't push the needle anywhere.

Javier: they believed it a couple months before and then now they don't, you know, and what changed,

Lexi Kakis: And then to, to, to switch and then be on the side of the fetishos, which is bizarre, cause it's like you were saying a whole lot of things about them on your podcast, how they're awful people, they encourage murder, that they're, you know, violent towards women, and all of these things, and then to just,

Javier: make

Lexi Kakis: to a 180 is bizarre

Javier: It is very

Lexi Kakis: enough people in your corner, like it doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker: And even for me, like, I just knew I didn't want to be a part of the stuff that she was doing anymore because it had too much of a black cloud over it. And I was like, if I'm gonna do this work, it's hard work to begin with, like, cold case work is hard, it's not easy, it's not gonna be, um, it can be very emotional, mentally draining, and, and all of that, and like, I don't need to add an additional cloud to that, um, so it was just very evident,

Javier: this was awesome. I mean, just such great perspective. And I think that people will appreciate it. And I love how this conversation started, your approach to this wasn't to attack her or anything. It was really, you're just filling in some gaps for us. And it's sad that, that, uh, and I mean, people talk shit all the time, right?

Speaker: People, I talk shit about people, people talk shit, but she definitely talked shit about you and that's not what you came to do, you know? And it must've been kind of revealing, right?

Lexi Kakis: it was very revealing.

Speaker: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: What's more revealing is that Lexie Kakis dodged a major bullet. LaDonna Humphrey had her tentacles wrapped around her, and She was supposed to be the next surrogate. But somehow, she got away. Thankfully, it sounds like Lexi is on to bigger and better things. She's now the co host of the podcast Seeking Justice, a new investigative series exploring the suspicious death of Don Pacella about a whistleblower who was found dead just before she was supposed to testify on behalf of a man wrongfully convicted of mortgage fraud. It sounds pretty cool. It sounds like a good podcast. Check it out. But before we go Isn't it funny how LaDonna quickly spun up this concept for a rebuttal podcast, We Are Not Afraid, while she was at CrimeCon? and how she tried to recruit the people around her to serve as the mouthpiece for the podcast. Thankfully, Lexi declined. but who is dumb enough to step up to the plate and defend LaDonna Humphrey at all costs? Does such person exist Hey, everybody. And welcome to, we are not afraid. This is the podcast that exposes the truth among all the lies. Of course, I'm your host, David McClam Next time on LaDonna Surrogates, the rise and fall of surrogate David McClam. Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: Lexi Kakis: Javier Leiva: