LaDonna's Surrogates part 3

Speaker: Introduction This series is titled LaDonna's Surrogates, possibly the most boring title I could come up with, but it seems to resonate with LaDonna supporters, so I'm sticking with it. In the first two episodes, we profiled surrogate numero uno, Dennis McCaslin, a grammar challenge blogger who posts mugshots of recent arrests and for some reason that can't be explained trash about all of LaDonna's enemies. When he's not tarnishing people's reputation, When he's not tarnishing people's reputation, He enjoys to, he enjoys kicking back and watching local wrestlers lube up and attack each other. Dennis McCaslin is just one of the handful of people who have stoc Dennis McCaslin is just one of the handful of people who have staked his reputation to support LaDonna at all costs. But you have to ask yourself, how the heck does she find these people? If I were accused of half the things LaDonna's accused of, I don't think I would have such vocal supporters. I wouldn't expect it either. That's a tall ask. For LaDonna, recruiting surrogates must be challenging. How does she do it? Today, we're going to talk about a woman who was actively being groomed to be LaDonna's next surrogate. Luckily for her, my series came out in Luckily for her, my series came out just in the nick of time to prevent that from happening. I'm Javier Leyva, and this is Pretend. Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. INTRO

Javier: And that turned out really well. That's because they were running it and not me. I think the learning lesson there is that I need a producer or some, somebody to moderate the chat and just like be on the backend. Cause this is the software that I used for the live and there's a producer feature. So I need to do that.

Speaker: I just, um, I thought I could handle it, but I couldn't. I like once the train started to derail, I was like, Oh my God, what am I doing?

Lexi Kakis: For my show, we use, um, StreamYard, which is another good one, but I think recently, yeah, but recently they're like upping their prices, like a ridiculous amount without justifying like new features. So I think there'll be like, people have to scramble for something

Javier: Well, this, this service is, um, I found these guys actually live in North Carolina where I live, but, um, I've met them at Podcast Movement and they seem like nice guys and it's a nice platform. I just happened to experience a bug in their system. They fixed it now. So, but we'll see. But I'm going to need a couple of weeks to recover from that because that sucked. right,

Speaker: HOW DID YOU MEET LADONNA

Javier: so my question for you is, how did you meet LaDonna? Just start at the beginning and go from there.

Lexi Kakis: Sure. Yeah, good question. So I started working for a company called Uncovered. And actually, before I started working for them, I was just like, a member in their community and I was really into researching cases.

Speaker: Meet Lexi Kakis

Lexi Kakis: And the first case I ever researched Was the Melissa Witt case. So that was very much like my entry point into true crime.

Speaker: Um, and just, it was mostly using a lot of publicly available information. So like, newspapers. com, things like that. And then I reached out to her because I had a couple questions. And then one thing kind of led to another when I was done with my research. I sent it over to her and she reviewed it and it just kind of went from there. So that was how I, you know, how I started, you know, how I met her.

Javier: Was that in which time period was that when, was that when she was working with Alicia or post

Lexi Kakis: pre Alicia. It was like 2021.

Javier: Hmm.

Lexi Kakis: Like, I think I met her in like March of 2021. Um, I think I mentioned, because I wrote the foreword for the most recent book, and I think I mentioned it in the book itself, like in my foreword.

Javier: You're talking about the book that she hasn't published yet?

Lexi Kakis: No, the most recent

Javier: Oh, like you mean like connected by faith? Okay. Yeah. I wasn't sure if it was like the one that, okay. Um, I want to find something real quick. So when you, you started talking, okay. Hang on. Cause I wanted to tell, talk to you about this, but, uh, okay.

Lexi Kakis: hmm.

Javier: I just want to make sure I have it. Okay, so, so you met her, you started doing research on the WIC case.

Speaker: This was pre Alicia, you know? Uh, you remember the year? Did you mention the year already?

Lexi Kakis: 2021. And what's interesting about the Melissa Witt case is I was born in 1994. And that's when, and so I was born in October of 1994. Melissa went missing in December of 1994. So I was drawn to that aspect of it, um, Mm hmm. So I kept thinking about how two families can have such different experiences of like, their first baby, and then like, Melissa's mother losing her only child, and, and all of that, and so that was one of the things that resonated with me about the case, among other things.

Speaker: Um, but yeah, so that was the first case I ever really did like a deep dive on in true crime.

Javier: And what was that relationship working with her? Was it, was she grateful for your work? Or what was that like?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean I wasn't really doing research for her, it was more for Uncovered and I shared what I did. So like she would share it occasionally on. The Facebook page that used to exist, um, and things like that. So I kind of shared it with her. And then at one point in time. She wanted to include it in one of her books.

Speaker: I don't remember if it ever made the cut I know things were signed to use the timeline in one of her books. Um But yeah, so that she kind of you know, it started from there

Javier: I gotcha. And so then what, what happened after? I mean, kind of describe how the relationship evolved.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I think just kind of like we had some similar friends other podcasters things like that Um, I met her for the first time in person at crime con vegas. I apologize if you hear the landscape roads outside

Javier: don't.

Lexi Kakis: Okay, perfect even better. Um You We met for the first time in CrimeCon Vegas, but we've had, like, Zoom calls, and I think just from the work that I did, she saw that I was capable of producing a certain level and standard of work, um, doing it ethically, responsibly, things like that, that I think she really admired.

Speaker: Um, so it just kind of blossomed sort of from there.

Javier: Does she ever pay you or was this all free?

Lexi Kakis: No, it wasn't like that. It was like I was truly working for Uncover and it was more so, Hey, like, here's another

Javier: Oh, oh, okay. So you were just like being helpful,

Lexi Kakis: of hers. Yeah, exactly.

Javier: Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. So you were doing your own thing and you were just being helpful with, with her. Did you have any negative? I mean, you've heard the series, I imagine. Did you ever experience any of that?

Lexi Kakis: no. So that was, I think, what was so interesting and both shocking from other people's experiences. Um, but I think, too, knowing now that, like, she wanted True Crime to be her career and things like that, like, I was, you know, supportive of the work that she was doing at the time. I didn't realize that there was all these, you know, issues with what she was doing. The crime scene footage and all these, you know, just unethical things, um, at the time, I, you know, she wasn't sharing that with me and I should mention that I never saw a piece of documentation from the case file. I was only ever working off of publicly available information. Um, I did personally try to request the case file twice.

Speaker: One was probably in 2021. And she mentioned it to me at one point, because I guess the, someone from the Portsmouth Police Office, uh, department was like, Oh, this person wanted to request the file, and then they ended up denying me, which is fine. I mean, I kind of, that's a common thing that happens anyway. And then in 2024 again, this year, I tried to request it just around when all this stuff was happening and the doc, and I kind of expected I'd get denied for that too, but I decided to take it a step further to the crime lab. And I tried that, got denied again for the autopsy report, but then was told that there's a special prosecutor on the case that needed permission. So I thought that was interesting. I don't know what that

Javier: Hmm.

Lexi Kakis: Um, but yeah.

Javier: That is So I never got to see documentation.

Speaker: Even though she had it. So she didn't share it with you, which is like kind of counter to everything I've been reporting. Cause in my reporting, she was sharing it willy nilly with, with everyone, or at least with Patty Rush. And I've seen those screenshots. So it sounds like she might've learned her lesson or maybe got spooked.

Lexi Kakis: Maybe. I don't know. I think also, too, like, I'm not local to her, whereas Patty was. So I think that's a different thing. Like I'm in New York, so I think it was just different context and like anytime we did meet, it was typically like on zoom or, or, or whatever. Um, so it was just different.

Javier: So, why would you want to insert yourself into this? If you, if you've managed to, like, skirt past all the harassment, why would you want to talk to me?

Lexi Kakis: fair game, uh, fair question. I think partially because I think my perspective is different, whereas a lot of people you were speaking with were more so in parts of her past, that have now kind of become part of her present, whereas I think I was working on stuff that was present and future.

Javier: Right.

Lexi Kakis: Um, and also knowing that like, I, my name is associated with her from the foreword that I wrote, and like, I'm not thrilled about that now, I'm not going to do anything about it, but like, I do kind of want to reclaim my name a little bit, of like, yes, I did that at the time, but like, I do genuinely care about doing cold case research the right way, with ethical standards, and doing it responsibly and all that, and that is something that is something that's so important to me, that I didn't pick up on her not doing it that way.

Speaker: You know, like, I think it was much more of a title of her of the working relationship, if you want to even call it that, than it was, like, doing the work,\ Lexie Kakis didn't come on my show to badmouth LaDonna and join the pileup. That's certainly not her goal. She worked with LaDonna for years, never experienced, She worked with LaDonna for years and never experienced any harassment, and even wrote the foreword to LaDonna Humphrey's latest, and even wrote the foreword to LaDonna Humphrey's latest book. It's a very different perspective than you've heard so far. But one thing I want to make clear, to my knowledge, Lexi never did any of LaDonna's dirty work. To me, she was just a

Javier: Yeah. And, you know, um, that's fair because, you know, your name is kind of associated with her. People could automatically assume that, that you're, that you feel one way or the other, but, and you're also presenting this different perspective, right? Where you didn't experience a harassment. You, you know, I mean, like that's really noteworthy.

Speaker: I also think, um, I mean, I guess I'm curious about now that you've listened to the series, Um, What are your feelings about the case?

Lexi Kakis: About Melissa's case, or just

Javier: Or just, uh, sorry, what are your feelings about LaDonna and some of the accusations that have been brought forward?

Lexi Kakis: I mean, truthfully, I think so much was presented that I I really feel like I would be a f Like, even if a fraction of it is true, it's still bad. Like, you know, it's it's not And I think her attempts at trying to save her image and things like that have also been incredibly disappointing. Um, and kind of immature in, in her way of going about it.

Speaker: So it's just like, it's sad. But I also think there's a lot of merit to what everyone else is saying. And I think it's interesting to have all these different types of people, different as like, parts of her wor of her life coming forward. Like, that can't all not be true. Like, it would take an

Javier: like,

Lexi Kakis: you know, effort to, to, to be doing that, and I don't think these people are doing that.

Javier: Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's two sides to every story. And I love the fact that you're presenting a different aspect that we haven't presented yet. So I would like to show you some of the screenshots that I found because I asked Alicia when you reached out to me, I was like, Hey, have you ever heard of Lexi?

Speaker: And honestly, I don't even know if she, uh, what

Lexi Kakis: We did one thing together. When I was at Uncovered, we did, like, a book talk event for Strangled, where, like, it was LaDonna and her interviewed. But LaDonna really spoke a lot more than Alicia. Um, but we didn't really have much interaction.

Javier: Yeah, she said I know her when I asked her and and I said well, what's her story and Alicia said well

Speaker: Yeah that you were that you were somebody that you were in touch with LaDonna before her and during the time that she was working with and Let's see And then she kind of mentions as she goes she talked about Lexi as an annoying But helpful groupie.

Lexi Kakis: Interesting, because she never made that known to me. Yeah.

Javier: hmm. Now that gets worse. So, let's see.

Speaker: Now she shows me an actual screenshot, and I can share this with you. Where she just searched your name. You know, and messenger, and it popped up Lexi. And LaDonna said, Lexi, Yeah, she's a big fan girl, Sai. And then the other time that you were mentioned, and I don't know if it's in the same thread, she goes, um, let me make sure I finish reading. Yeah, she's a big fan, Sai. And then the next one is, her name is Lexi Kakis, right? Is that how you say it?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, you're

Javier: her name is Lexie Kakis. I would not, however, tell her about Randall or that you are working on a suspect for the Witt case. She is jonesing bad to get her teeth into this case. s She's super young and while she did a great job on the timeline, I do not trust her.

Lexi Kakis: That's so interesting, and also so disheartening because she never, like, she really played the two sides of that. Um, and

Javier: because you never got that vibe?

Lexi Kakis: No, never, never. And I also, to clear my name from that perspective, I was not trying to be like a fangirl, it was just genuine passion for like the cold case advocacy, the research, and, and that side of it.

Speaker: It wasn't like I looked up to her like she was some, I don't know, that to me is interesting and, and upsetting to hear too, but not surprising in the grand scheme of what we know now.

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to get your reaction because, you know, we started this conversation as like, you're saying neutral things about her, which is like something that we haven't heard, not even like positive things, but like just neutral things. And let me share that. Let me send that to you real quick so you could have it.

Lexi Kakis: Thank you. Yeah, and

Javier: Because I'm not making this up.

Lexi Kakis: Oh, of course not, yeah. And my point of speaking with you isn't to like, destroy her life or anything like that, but I think it's just a different perspective. Um, that I have, and I will say to that too, you know, the moment that Alicia was out of the picture, and by no means is this a dig at Alicia, um, but like suddenly, my friendship status with her se seemed to be, you know, upgraded, so, you know, you can talk from both sides of your face that like, you know, I'm a groupie on this, that, the other, but like when you needed more people for the wit case, you know, you were quick to include me in that, you didn't have to,

Javier: I think she misjudges people a lot. I mean, this is my perspective. This is my only personal opinion. I think she mistook Alicia as somebody who would just tag along with her and that she could manipulate her personal life story and that Alicia wouldn't ever fight back. I bet she never even imagined that Alicia would do that.

Speaker: Would have the backbone to stand up to her. And then she probably thought that of you too. You know, she just assumes that people are weak. And, and then David McClam, she looks at him. I mean, the guy, I don't like to talk bad about him because I don't want to like insult people with low intelligence, you know, but I mean, she found, she finally found the guy that would do anything for her. for her, and then David McCaslin with the stupid blog, you know, these are people that will just bow down and do her work. And it doesn't sound like you and Alicia ever collapsed, you know,

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, no, yeah, and also,

Speaker: It's creepy to see the parallels. Just like Alicia, LaDonna roped Lexi into producing one of her true crime pi Just like Alicia, LaDonna roped Lexi in to produce one of her true crime pet projects. In fact, right before all this went down, LaDonna and Lexi were even supposed to co write a book together, just like LaDonna did with Alicia on the book Strangled. Just, just like LaDonna and Alicia did on the book Strangled Book

Lexi Kakis: Thing you might want to know, too, about the book that you wanted to write with me. So at CrimeCon, I went to the, the, the booth, the genius booth, and Steven, the guy, starts like yelling at me, but it was sort of like playful of like, like, how come you haven't gotten my email?

Speaker: And I was like, what do you mean? Like, you did not email me. And he was like, I didn't. I was like, I would have responded. I would have done something with it. Like, I didn't, I didn't get an email from you. And he was like, oh, maybe LaDonna was supposed to send something. And, like, she never did, but it would have been something to sign in relation to a project she wanted to do with me, like a true crime academy. And she wanted me to be, like, the ethical component to it. Which says a lot.

Javier: So that's interesting. I I didn't even realize that so she wanted you to write a book with her

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. I mean, I think in some ways, uh, she wanted me to become the new stand in Alicia, I guess?

Speaker: I mean, I had other things going on in the work that I was doing, too. So, like, it wasn't just the wit case all day, every day. Like, that was one of maybe 200 that I researched while I was working for Uncovered. Um, so it's interesting from that perspective, too, and I mean, and also, too, like, she included me in things, so as much as she wants to say that I was a groupie, she was the one who invited me to be on the board of her non profit, and write the forward for her book and do these things, so, like, it's just interesting for her to turn around and say that.

Javier: Yeah. You weren't expecting that, right? From this

Lexi Kakis: that's a Yeah, yeah, that was a shock. I've never heard that before from anyone. But like, knowing what we know now, especially from the last episode you did, like, you know, the way she talks about people, you know, positively to their face, and then she's nasty behind their back, and at some point that will catch up to you.

Javier: Yeah.

Speaker: Or, or it caught up to her. Yeah. ALL LOST GIRLS

Lexi Kakis: Yeah.

Javier: And, and a form of, uh, of this podcast, but, um, you know, it's interesting, crap, I lost my train of thought, um, but, but, but, but, but, but, oh, the board, you mentioned she approached you about becoming a board member. What, which organization was that for?

Lexi Kakis: All the Lost Girls.

Javier: And did you ever, um, become a board member?

Lexi Kakis: So I sat in on one meeting, but no paperwork was ever signed. She said she was going to send me paperwork, and I wasn't going to push the issue, because, like, I had other things going on, and I also forgot about it. It wasn't like there was meetings every week. You know, it was one meeting that was in, I think, December of, of last year, and then we were supposed to meet again, and then it never happened for one reason or another, and there was no reschedule, and

Javier: Mm

Lexi Kakis: And, you know, whatever.

Speaker: Um, I do have all the meeting notes from that because I was the one who did the, who took the meeting notes.

Javier: Yeah, you hang on one second. Hey,

Lexi Kakis: Yeah.

Javier: my daughter. Where are you

Lexi Kakis: okay.

Javier: Huh? Oh, okay. Make sure that it has enough battery and a make sure that there's not floodwaters, you know Yeah, okay. Sorry, it's been, we got, um, that

Lexi Kakis: Oh, yeah, the hurricane. Yeah.

Javier: Oh my god, our freaking house. Our whole neighborhood turned into a lake.

Speaker: We have a creek in the backyard. Our whole backyard became the creek with rushing water. It wasn't like standing water. It was like, imagine a white water, like rafting, like throughout the whole backyard. It was insane. The side and the backyard. So anyway, um, so So it's interesting you, you go to this one meeting, you're taking notes. Did it seem to you that the other people in the meeting, the other board members, that they had official roles? Or did they ask you to take notes or you just took notes because you felt like you needed

Lexi Kakis: volunteered me. She volunteered me to do it. I was like, that's fine. Because also, I think at that point, Maybe for the Dana Stidham documentary, I was already, like, the note taker, maybe, I think, I'm, I'm not, I'm fuzzy on the timing of it, but, like, so it wasn't a big deal, I didn't really mind, um, I mean, like, I've also never sat in on a non profit board meeting, so I didn't have anything to

Speaker: compare it to, so, so, so there's that, um, I mean, it didn't seem very formal, necessarily, she had a, I mean, in true LaDonna lot of big ideas, um, but then, like, you know, there was very little execution on, you know,

Javier: So I'm curious because you probably attended one of the few all the lost girls meetings that have ever taken place

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, probably.

Javier: Did they talk I mean because all the lost girls has a very narrow scope Women who have been strangled right and as far as I know the only case that they've covered is the Missy Wick case Were you talking about other girls who have been strangled or were you talking about?

Speaker: Uh, LaDonna's, uh, true crime ambitions. Like what, what was the topic? I'm

Lexi Kakis: So it was a few different, of course, yeah, so it was a few different things. One of them was like, planning for the fest, for her true crime fest. And what that would look like. Um, some, you know, and wanting to produce more documentaries and do more of that. Um, so, separate from the non profit,

Speaker: Um, I don't know. Let me see. I know on Reddit people had questions about the production company side of things. I think it was twofold. It was a non profit, but then she also wanted to be the production company side to be the machine that produces all of these documentaries. That's great. So, it was a non profit, but I think she also, I don't know if it was a separate company or if it was just the title, but she did have

Javier: But I guess the assumption is that it seems like it's a like a shell non profit because All the Lost Girls has not, to my knowledge, covered any of the strangled cases that I

Lexi Kakis: No, it's only been Melissa Witt. It's only been,

Javier: And, and it seems like a vehicle to, to get her production company off the ground.

Speaker: It seems to me that LaDonna Humphrey and her surrogate Amy Smith are using their non profit All the Lost Girls as a way to fund LaDonna's true crime career. Even after my series Who's Afraid of LaDonna Humphrey was released, LaDonna was hunting for her next case. One of the stories was her, one of the stories she had her sights set on was the Dana Stidham. One of the stories she had her One of the stories she had her eyes set on was the Dana Stidham case. Dana Stidham was an 18 year old girl who disappeared on July 25, 1989, after leaving the grocery store in Bella Vista, Arkansas. Dana Stidham was, Dana Stidham was an 18 year old girl who disappeared in July, Dana Stidham was an 18 year old girl who disappeared on July 25th, 1989, after leaving the grocery store in Bella Vista, Arkansas. Her body was later found three months later. No arrests have ever been made in connection with her DANA STIDHAM

Lexi Kakis: like I was on a team.

Speaker: For the Dana Stidham case, which was apparently a name that was mentioned in the wit file And that was gonna be like one of her next projects and she was gonna do a companion book and also a documentary on that We had many meetings, but not much ever got done on it.

Javier: Well, can you spell that case name? I'm not familiar. Um,

Lexi Kakis: S T I D H A M, I think? There's actually a podcast, interestingly enough, of Uh, the,

Javier: Paper

Lexi Kakis: of, yes, yes, he just did a season, Ozark, and it's all about her case, and she had no idea that was happening,

Javier: Hmm. Did that kind of blow a hole in her plans or?

Lexi Kakis: yes and no, I feel like it, it did for a moment, and then, like, we met with him, and then, like, she was, she was still determined to keep going, but she also couldn't get any information from the local police department. They were not cooperative with her. And I don't know what, where that was coming from.

Javier: Bella Vista.

Speaker: It looks, Mm hmm. Yeah, which is the same city where Oasis is. It's like a suburb of

Lexi Kakis: Yeah.

Javier: Bentonville.

Lexi Kakis: So it was interesting to me too that she could never get cooperation from local police, and at that point too you would think, having worked on the wit case, you would have had some established relationships to make that, like, not an impossible feat. Um, but we ended up teaming up with a former journalist, and he did incredible work, and he had a lot of notes and information, so we were kind of using that as our starting point.

Speaker: CLINTON NELSON another case LaDonna was working on was the case of, was the case of Clinton Nelson. In 2016, Clinton Nelson attended a house party in Louisiana. He was never seen again. Earlier this year, LaDonna announced that she was working on a documentary about this case (https://www.ksla.com/2021/08/31/bossier-detectives-still-searching-man-who-went-missing-after-house-party-15-years-ago/)

Lexi Kakis: Um, and she had this plan to kind of do that case and then, like, almost like a series and apparently Amazon was interested in it and things like that.

Javier: Yeah, yeah. And what about some other cases? I'm going to list a couple and you tell me if you're familiar with them. Delaney Gwinner case.

Lexi Kakis: that one I'm not familiar with.

Javier: what about the Melissa Trotter case?

Lexi Kakis: I know of that one because of the connection to the wit case or just the similarities of it.

Javier: Did you know that? Was she working on it?

Lexi Kakis: I don't think it was something that she was working on but because Larry Swearington, if I'm remembering correctly, was responsible for killing Melissa Trotter and there were so many similarities in both the girls looks, their ages. Things like that. That was why that name came up, but I don't think she was pursuing the case.

Speaker: I think Trotter's case ended up being closed because someone was arrested, convicted, and all of that. And I think died in prison, if I'm correct. Even after my brutal hour interview with LaDonna, she couldn't help but plug her next project. 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: that years I had been studying the case of, and I've got to go. I did tell you I had a A hard stop at 315. I've got to pick up kids, but, um, the case of Nathaniel Barjona was always really interested in that and I'm actually working on a book about him and I don't know what you know about him, but he was a pretty horrific cannibal and a child murderer and his roommate actually saw a lot of stuff. Let me interrupt her pitch for a second. Remember how LaDonna was suggesting that Daniel Watson killed Melissa Witt because his roommate noticed that he had a Mickey Mouse watch? LaDonna even told the U. S. Sun, a major publication, that she was in contact with Mel With Melissa's With Melissa's with Melissa Witt's killer's roommate. Now she's announcing a new project. Now she's announcing a new podcast about roommates who live with serial killers. 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: So it's pretty fascinating. We're going to kick it off with, um, Nathaniel Barjona and then we've got 11 other stories about People who were roommates with what they later found out to be serial killers. So yeah, I'm excited about

Javier: But it's not about Melissa

Speaker: Witt, right? 20240515-riverside_ladonna_humphrey_raw-audio_javier_leiva's stud_0016: No, it has nothing to do with Melissa Witt NATHANIAL ROOMMATE

Javier: So there is another name that I'm going to float by you to see if, if you, if it rings a bell, but there was Nathaniel Barjona, which she told me when I interviewed her, that she is working on a book about him and he was a horrific cannibal and child murderer. And his roommate actually saw, um, saw a lot of the stuff.

Speaker: Remember when, I don't know if you, how closely you've been following the Reddit and social media, but she once posted something about that she was working on a project about her roommates or something like that. And the implication was that she was working on a project about Daniel Watson because according to her, Daniel Watson's roommate, uh, Uh, you know, uh, knew some information about Daniel and his involvement in the, you know, possible involvement in Melissa Witt's murder. But in reality, she was, it was about this, this Nathaniel Barjona guy. I have reached out to some of the victim's families involved in these cases to ask them if they are aware of the serious allegations made against LaDonna Humphrey. A cousin of Dana Stigham, the Bella Vista woman who was killed The Bella Vista woman who was killed told me that they signed a contract with LaDonna, but that the project has stalled out. The person who runs a Clinton Nelson Facebook group told me that they are still actively working on the documentary. Let's get back to my conversation with Lexie Kakis.

Lexi Kakis: So that name is familiar to me only because from her podcast because I feel like that was something that was mentioned I don't know if that was in the context of like when she was doing the trafficking stuff or what but I feel like that Was name that was mentioned and that's why I know that I don't know a ton about him I know she had interest in pursuing something with the Clinton Nelson case.

Speaker: He was a young man out of Louisiana I think he's out of Louisiana, who went missing. Um, and apparently she knew that, she knows the family and her and Amy were supposed to, at some point in time, go to Shreveport, Louisiana to pick up the case file. And I, as far as I know, that never happened. DAVID MCCLAM AND OTHER CASES

Javier: Ah, yeah, that's interesting. So it sounds like they covered it on extinguish. It'd be interesting. So my, the reason why I ask her all these questions is because you kind of had that insight of like you, you were around her after Alicia. And so were you around her while she was with David McClam or,

Lexi Kakis: No, I mean, he just popped up sort of out of nowhere. Well, I don't mean to be rude, but like, yeah.

Javier: bless his heart. So, But yeah, but I just wonder, I guess what my listeners are probably wondering is, if she did this to the Melissa Witt case, right? Like, what is she working on next? Like, who is she trying to capitalize on, on their story? And so, it'd be interesting if I reached out to, um, this Clinton Nelson person.

Lexi Kakis: Mhm.

Javier: family of and friends of him to know if do they know who they're working with, you know, potentially how, how involved are they with Madonna? It'd be interesting.

Lexi Kakis: And even to that point, too, like, you know, because sometimes she has these big ideas, but then, obviously, sometimes on the execution of things is where, you know, things fall flat. Um, I mean, it, it, there's a million reasons why this could have happened, but, like, the Mosel Witt documentary did take a long time to make, and from my understanding, it seemed like, The narrative kind of had to be, you know, was not manipulated, that's too strong of a word, but like trying to kind of figure out what the storyline of the documentary was, seemed like it took a lot of effort.

Speaker: Maybe that was because of, you know, her own changing of some of the information or whatever that may be. Or production, I don't know, I'm not

Javier: But actually, in all fairness, from my point of view, I thought the documentary, while not the best documentary I've ever seen in sorry, my dog is moving around. While not the best documentary I've ever seen in my life. It wasn't it didn't contain a lot of the crazy rumors that she manufactured like Daniel Watson or The Mickey Mouse watch I don't think was mentioned or if it was I it was very forgettable.

Speaker: It wasn't like a plot point um You know, there was no, uh death fetisher, you know, there was none of that

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. Well, I also think, too, to that side of things, if she took a moment to watch the video or at least zoom in on to the, um, the watch component of it, I saw a little bit of that video. I couldn't watch the whole thing because it was very disturbing and

Speaker: not an easy watch.

Javier: you've seen the body footage

Lexi Kakis: No, no, I'm sorry. I'm speaking to, um, Alicia's video.

Javier: Oh, oh, yeah, sorry No

Lexi Kakis: Um, but like, if she would have taken a moment to look at like, the watch or whatever, cause I forget where I heard this, but it wasn't even a Mickey Mouse watch that Alicia was wearing. Like, it could have been ruled out right away. And I

Javier: It was what, a Minnie Mouse watch or something?

Lexi Kakis: Mickey, yeah, something like that, it wasn't, it wasn't Mickey. And that was like her whole thing. And even that doesn't make sense of like, why would they use a different character or, or whatever. Um,

Javier: why a Mickey Mouse watch? I keep saying this, but I want to beat it like a dead horse. Why would you fixate on a Mickey Mouse watch when Melissa Witt was found completely naked? Every piece of clothing and jewelry was missing. Why the Mickey Mouse watch? Oh,

Lexi Kakis: when you think about it, like, that meant that she either went to Disney World or Disneyland. Or someone went there and got it for her, because it wasn't like where you can go to Walmart or wherever to get the watch. Like, you had to go there to get

Javier: I think you could, though.

Lexi Kakis: I, well, I think it may have been on, like, that's when that stuff started happening, because,

Javier: Like you could have got to Kmart or something like that and gotten it.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. Well, but at one point in time, you had to have, the only way to get that stuff was going to the park. Yeah. But I don't know why she fixated so much time and energy. I think she really thought that, like, that would break it open.

Javier: It seems like, uh, like if you were going to write a work of fiction or a movie, it seems like a plot device. You know,

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, I think now we, yeah, I think now that's definitely what that was. Um,

Javier: Yeah.

Lexi Kakis: but,

Javier: But no, I mean, you answered some questions. And so then, um, Okay, so Alicia Leaves, you kind of worked with her a little bit. Yeah. You know, informally after Alicia leaves, but what, what kind of contact have you had since the podcast or right before the podcast

Lexi Kakis: So I saw her at CrimeCon Nashville. So

Javier: this year's and that's, yeah. Remind people the timing of this,

Lexi Kakis: this, I think, was the weekend that the trailer dropped. And, which was

Javier: the trailer for my show,

Lexi Kakis: for your show. And, like, she was, she, you can tell, I mean, it was obvious she was spooked. She was really concerned. She was worried about it. Um, and I started seeing it other places online, too, just from other people sharing it, like, that sort of thing.

Speaker: Um, and then on one of the nights, I don't remember if it was a Friday or the Saturday of, of ClamCon, she had an off site event that there were some of us, and most of it was just her being super upset about all of this, and kind of just like, really just like, needing the sympathy and the support. And like, on one hand, yeah, you want to be a friend to someone, but on the other hand, when I look back at it now, it was like, I am almost 30. You are 20 years older than me. This is just weird. Like, you should have, there should be other people in your life that you should be going to for some of this. Like, she was concerned. It's like, will everybody hate me? And whatever. And it was just, it's just strange to kind of like, need that level of support from people. Um, Bye.

Javier: So it's not like she was trying to, so, and by the way, listeners, I did not know she was going to CrimeCon. I didn't time the podcast so it could come out the weekend of Crime Con. That was very coincidental. But you're saying that she was walking around Crime Con and it wasn't like she was, uh, she was acknowledging that this was going on.

Speaker: It wasn't like she was trying to, like, ignore it. It was very obvious that there was this podcast

Lexi Kakis: Yeah,

Javier: and she would talk to you about it.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was, it was in my circle of people that I was there with, like, it was a very, it was a topic of discussion, um, and even to, like, she, she left early because of it, um, I think on Saturday at some point she left or, or Sunday, I don't really remember, but she left early.

Speaker: Um, and then, when we were all home, I think not long after, we were supposed to have, like, a meeting for the documentary, and that went quiet. The documentary for the Stidham case. And I mean, when I look back, if I was not the one being like, Oh, are we having a meeting tonight? Because like, there wasn't communication. It wasn't me trying to be like a sham girl. It was me trying to be like, Oh, are we having a meeting? Do I have to like prepare my evening so that I'm going to have a meeting with everyone for this? Or am I just going to like hang out and go to bed? Um, you know, then it was like, when I would say that, then she's like, Oh, yeah, we'll meet tonight or, Oh, it'll be next week or, or whatever it was. But I mean, we never really made a lot of. Progress on the doc really

Javier: and then it just kind of petered off and you never heard from

Lexi Kakis: and then and then the the show kind of dropped I think maybe within the first two episodes, whatever the timing was Suddenly, you know, you were all kicked out of the group. There was no, it was a Facebook Messenger group, we were all kicked out of the group. No final message or anything, or no heads up.

Speaker: And we all got individual messages from Amy, kind of being like, Hey, like, wanted to see if you're still interested in, you know, working on this project with us. Like, Sheryl McCollum's gonna be spearheading it now. Um, You know, you know, are you, are you still down? And I was like, you know, I don't really have the time for right now, which wasn't a lie necessarily, because I did start a newish job around that point. And I still had my podcast I was working on and other things, but I have no idea of the status of. Of that project, you know, it was even got off the ground after that. I have

Javier: It was all pre production at that point.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. Yeah.

Javier: right, so let me get a better understanding. I want to dwell a little bit more on this Crime Con thing. If, if my podcast wouldn't have dropped at all, like let's say my podcast didn't exist, what were her plans at Crime Con that year?

Lexi Kakis: She just had a booth, so she was not speaking. Um, it was just her, the deep dark secrets table that she had there.

Javier: No, no David, no Amy.

Lexi Kakis: Amy was with her. I don't know if David was there. I really didn't ha I don't I never really had a lot of interaction with him. Really ever, honestly. I think I was on a Zoom call with him maybe once, but it was just other people, so I wasn't really chatting with him.

Javier: So it was her and Amy. She was supposed to have a booth there. Did she go forward? Like did she actually meet people during podcast role or?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, yeah, she had a table, she did like the whole, you know, thing you do when you're on podcast row and float around, say hello, you know, whatever it is. Um, but I think once the podcast dropped, I think that spooked her, and I think, and I don't know if she was getting questions from other people, I don't know how that, you know, people were confronting her about it, or asking, or whatever, but I think she felt the need that, like, she overstayed her welcome there, I think. Um,

Javier: I mean, I felt awkward for her, you know?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, I mean, it's an awkward situation, I think, just, like, as far as human experiences go, like, it's just an awkward spot to be in.

Javier: want to be in that, in CrimeCon.

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. I mean, I don't blame her. If that was, if I was in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be there either. Um, you're kind of a sitting duck, in a way. Um, but, and then she left, and then I didn't really hear much from her.

Speaker: Um, actually, at that meetup the next morning, she's like, I have all the proof, so she sent it to me. And I, I think the next morning I skimmed it, but like, you know, you're, you're peopled out from being at CrimeCon. Like, I'm not trying to do, like, a deep dive on this. And, and, at a certain point, it's a lot of he said, she said, you know? Um, so there was not much for me to really do with it. Um, she was also advocating for someone to do some sort of journalism or advocacy around this. And I remember specifically saying, like, I didn't say this to her, but I said this to someone else, where it's like, first of all, no one's gonna do that. Like, you know, it, I mean, well, she had someone do it, but like, it's just, there's so many other things. To put energy towards instead of doing like a counter episode, you know podcast or whatever Yeah,

Javier: All right, so he's my I have a great thing. He's like spending. Okay, so let me get this straight. The moment my podcast drops, she's at Crime Con and she's already formulating the idea for this reaction podcast, this rebuttal podcast that ultimately

Lexi Kakis: she wanted someone to do it. She wanted someone to do it No one stepped up and be like, oh i'm gonna do it No one wanted to do that,

Javier: Who would want to

Lexi Kakis: already had oh you're putting yourself out You know, to draw it. Like, it's,

Javier: And why is she not doing it?

Lexi Kakis: Beats me. I mean, she made that one episode about, uh, Alicia that I, seemed to me more so just bullying and being nasty than it was really trying to, like, clear her name.

Speaker: And I think one thing that makes me, like, showed me a lot about who she is is just the way she responded to things. Like, it was just so childish. I mean, I was the one who told her to take down the photo of Alicia on Twitter that she posted in one of the threads that I'm sure somebody has a screenshot of. I have the screenshot. It's a tweet where LaDonna Humphrey posted an image of Alicia's death fetish video with the sole purpose of, with the sole purpose of humiliating Alicia

Lexi Kakis: So I was like, that shit's not gonna age well for you. It's not

Javier: like in what reality, you know, that's the thing about these, uh, vindictive, like narcissistic people that they want to make an argument and they're not even thinking about the consequences or how it's perceived by normal people, right? Like normal people don't think that posting a screenshot of a girl who says that she was sexually assaulted during a death fetish porn video.

Speaker: would be tasteful as a rebuttal point, you

Lexi Kakis: But also, who are you to to to say if she was or wasn't assaulted? What is what does that gain you? What is the goal to that? That accomplishes nothing.

Speaker: That doesn't solve Melissa Witt's case. That doesn't get any more tips. That does nothing. That's just you trying to stand your ground on something that doesn't push the needle anywhere.

Javier: they believed it a couple months before and then now they don't, you know, and what changed,

Lexi Kakis: And then to, to, to switch and then be on the side of the fetishos, which is bizarre, cause it's like you were saying a whole lot of things about them on your podcast, how they're awful people, they encourage murder, that they're, you know, violent towards women, and all of these things, and then to just,

Javier: make

Lexi Kakis: to a 180 is bizarre

Javier: It is very

Lexi Kakis: enough people in your corner, like it doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker: And even for me, like, I just knew I didn't want to be a part of the stuff that she was doing anymore because it had too much of a black cloud over it. And I was like, if I'm gonna do this work, it's hard work to begin with, like, cold case work is hard, it's not easy, it's not gonna be, um, it can be very emotional, mentally draining, and, and all of that, and like, I don't need to add an additional cloud to that, um, so it was just very evident,

Javier: this was awesome. I mean, just such great perspective. And I think that people will appreciate it. And I love how this conversation started, your approach to this wasn't to attack her or anything. It was really, you're just filling in some gaps for us. And it's sad that, that, uh, and I mean, people talk shit all the time, right?

Speaker: People, I talk shit about people, people talk shit, but she definitely talked shit about you and that's not what you came to do, you know? And it must've been kind of revealing, right?

Lexi Kakis: it was very revealing. I mean, I'll add one more thing that she had, allegedly, in the works, a 48 hours episode for the Melissa Wick case. Almost all of this year, leading up to CrimeCon, she would kind of dangle the idea that there was going to be arrests very soon. Very soon. And, like, for anyone who does this work, that's exciting.

Speaker: Because it feels like the work you're doing is making and, you know, it matters and all those things, yeah. And so, you know, that never happened, and whatever, because who knows, like, there's a million things that happen behind the scenes. You know, you only have one chance to arrest someone if you want to do it the right way, so I wasn't mad that it was taking a long time. But like, then she would start to get, I feel like, a little sloppy just mentioning his name, and she sent me a photo, and then asked me to delete it, which I did delete it,

Javier: You talking about Daniel Watson?

Lexi Kakis: Well, yeah,

Javier: Yeah.

Lexi Kakis: and then I didn't because I didn't want to have that On my phone, you know, like

Javier: When she was sending you this, do you feel like she actually believed that Daniel Watson had anything to do with this?

Lexi Kakis: I don't know but I was never convinced like her reasoning wasn't strong enough, but then again, it goes to the, that idea of like, I wasn't working day in day out with her on this case. You know, she was like the main advocate and I was just someone who did like additional advocacy for, with the database that I worked for.

Speaker: I wasn't doing this for her specifically. But like, she had this whole plan in place to have a 48 hour episode. And basically she wanted it to chronicle, I think, both the case and then hopefully the eventual arrest. So she wanted to do a panel at her North at the festival that she does. She wanted me to even lead a panel. With law enforcement, which I was like, me, why me? Um, but like, of course I would have done it because it also like, selfishly, from like a career perspective, like those are good things to have, you know, experience for, and like, to just to work with different law enforcement and all that, like that's always a good thing to be doing in this space, so.

Javier: Yeah. And um, Yeah. What was I going to say? You said something and made me think of something and then I forgot. Um,

Lexi Kakis: The 48 Hours episode, maybe?

Javier: no, um, I can't remember. Don't worry about it. It's not, it's not important. But no, this is great, Lexi. I appreciate it. Um, I, I think I might make this into like a bonus episode and I want to tie it into some of the work that she was working on, you know, like, and like, I'll reach out to that, to that one case.

Speaker: I wrote it down. I can't remember off the top of my head,

Lexi Kakis: hmm.

Javier: just see like, are they actively working with her? You know, cause it would be interesting. They might not even know about this podcast. So

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. Um, I have no idea. Um, I mean, I never met with the family, either. Like, you know, it wasn't that sort of thing. Um, it but it also was just, like, in the future. There was no specific time for that. Um, she wanted to have, like, a trailer for the Stidham documentary ready, potentially. By her festival. And that didn't happen.

Javier: Yeah.

Lexi Kakis: But she made it seem like she did have, you know, production things in the works and all of that.

Javier: Yeah.

Lexi Kakis: who knows if that was ever real, I never signed anything. That's also why I don't feel bad talking about it, because I'm not held to an NDA. I was told I would have to sign, like, there would be one. Nothing ever came my way.

Speaker: So,

Javier: she doesn't cross her T's and dot her I's for sure. But, uh,

Speaker: Oh, I remember. Oh, sorry. No, I remember what I wanted to. No, no, no. Um, I was just going to ask you about, are you, tell me about your project and your podcast. Are you still working on that project? Um, I, you mentioned that. I forgot what it was.

Lexi Kakis: Um, Seeking Justice.

Speaker: the podcast. So, uh, yes. I

Javier: No, you mentioned a database. What was the name of the

Lexi Kakis: Oh, Uncovered. Uncovered. I, um, so I, I'm still in there on a volunteer basis. Um. So, you know, whenever I have a few extra hours a week to kind of help, I will, but, um, it's a database for missing, murdered, and unidentified. Um, but from working at Uncovered, I met Dana Pohl and Andre Cipriano, which is where we decided to advocate for the Dawn Pestelli case out of Parma, Ohio. A young whistleblower was found deceased from a very high level of alcohol, um, just before she was set to testify on behalf of a man who was being wrongfully convicted for mortgage fraud as part of, like, the mortgage fraud task force that was happening in Ohio in, like, 09 and, you know. Her death happened in 2012, but yeah, so we've been kind of unpacking that case and we're hoping to have some more info to share soon.

Speaker: We have nine episodes, I think, that are available on YouTube and podcasts and all that.

Javier: podcast, right?

Lexi Kakis: Seeking justice. Yeah.

Speaker: What's more revealing is that Lexie Kakis dodged a major bullet. LaDonna Humphrey had her tentacles wrapped around her, and she was supposed to be the next surrogate. She was supposed to be the next surrogate. But somehow, she got away. Thankfully, it sounds like Lexi is on to bigger and better things. She's now the co host of the podcast Seeking Justice, a new investigative series exploring the suspicious death of Don Pacellas. of Don Pacella about a, about a whistleblower who was found dead just before she was supposed to testify on behalf of the man wrongfully convicted of mortgage fraud, on behalf of a man wrongfully convicted of mortgage fraud, on behalf of a man wrongfully convicted of mortgage fraud. It sounds pretty cool. It sounds like a good podcast. Check it out. But before we go Isn't it funny how LaDonna quickly spun up this concept for a rebuttal podcast, We Are Not Afraid, while she was at, while she was at CrimeCon, while she was at CrimeCon? And how she tried to recruit one of her surrogates, and how she tried to recruit the people around her to serve as the mouthpiece for the podcast. Thankfully, Lexi declined. But who is dumb enough, but who is dumb enough to step up to the plate and defend LaDonna Humphrey at all costs? Does such person exist Hey, everybody. And welcome to, we are not afraid. This is the podcast that exposes the truth among all the lies. Of course, I'm your host, David McClam Next time on LaDonna Surrogates, the rise and fall of surrogate David McClam.

Javier: Cool. I'll make sure to link it to link to that if you want me to do you want me to

Lexi Kakis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure.

Javier: cool

Lexi Kakis: You know, cause There was no discussion of a podcast or anything like that, but like, she wanted to create some sort of course, or, we never really got to talk about it. It was just an idea that she had, and then it, you know, like everything else, fell off.

Javier: So is stephen booth as creepy as he seems in real

Lexi Kakis: He's an interesting, he's an interesting character. Um, I think the way that he reacted to all of this on his business page was bizarre. Um, it seemed to lack a little bit of decorum.

Javier: Oh, yeah It's

Lexi Kakis: Bye. I mean, I never really had any other, like, interactions with him. It was just bizarre that he was like, How come you didn't get to my email?

Speaker: And I was like, I didn't get an email from you. Nothing was sent. You know, I'm, yeah, it

Javier: I wonder what kind of hold she has on some of these men Like it doesn't make sense

Lexi Kakis: I don't know. And it's not like her books are, are New York Times bestsellers where they're like, you know, flown off the shelf. So I don't understand.

Javier: They're being literally pulled from the shelves.

Lexi Kakis: Literally, yeah. I mean, I have no idea. It doesn't make any sense to me,

Javier: So weird. Well, Lexi, I'm gonna let you get on with your weekend. You answered all my questions. Did we miss anything or we're good?

Lexi Kakis: Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of people who were supposed to attend that meeting, but not everyone did. For whatever reason, I don't know what or why that was. Um, but, yeah, I think it was just kind of sort of just like a lot of ideas, but no execution at the end of the day.

Javier: Yeah, totally. Well, Lexi, I'm glad we touched base. I'll let you know when, when my plans are with this, but I'm glad that you got your, your story out there and you're kind of clearing your name, so to speak. Yeah. Not that anybody was calling you out or anything, but I wouldn't, you know, my name were on a book or something.

Speaker: I would want to make sure that people knew where, where I stood, you know, with things.

Lexi Kakis: because I've been pretty quiet about all that, because I'm on the Patreon, so I see everything, and every now and again I've wanted to comment, but I'm like, I'll just let it play out.

Javier: You just gotta change your name. But, alright. Well, thank you, Lexi. I appreciate it.

Lexi Kakis: thank you.

Javier: Alright, take care. Bye. Oh, uh, you know how this works, right? Like the whole, it uploads, it, it, it says it's 99 percent