The Real Catch Me If You Can part 2

Speaker: 1102-TheRealCatchMeifYouCanPart2 Music: I simply was, uh, like many people who fell under the seductive influence of the real Frank William Abagnale Jr., I was very seduced by him from his book, just by the character, how he saw himself when he wrote the book about his adventures, his exploits in the world of being an imposter and check fraud.

Javier: This is the voice of Steven Spielberg, the most commercially successful director of all time.

Speaker: Music: This young man, um, came of age during a 21-month crime spree, and a lot of, a lot of which was very innocent.

Javier: Innocent? I mean, the Salem witches were innocent. Galileo, who was imprisoned because he believed that the Earth revolved around the sun, was innocent. George Floyd, who was brutally murdered by police in broad daylight, was innocent Frank Abagnale is not innocent, even if you believe his story. The guy robbed and cheated his way throughout life. Maybe Spielberg is referring to childhood innocence. You remember, right? The period in time when you still believed that monsters lived under your bed, and that your parents were the most powerful people in your life. Through the eyes of an innocent child, there is no sex, there is no death, there are no consequences. But this definition doesn't seem to fit Abagnale either. In the story we've all come to believe, Abagnale was driven by sex, and he got off on the rush of fleeing from the boogeyman wearing black ties and fedoras. Listen, I know Steven Spielberg is not a documentarian, and no one should ever watch a movie and consider it a piece of journalism. But when you listen to Steven Spielberg, you get the sense that this guy truly believes he accurately portrayed Abagnale's teen years.

Speaker: Music: People like and trust Frank. When you meet Frank, you understand in a second just meeting him how he could sometimes pull the wool over your eyes and convince you that he was a doctor wanting to transfer to a different hospital, having forged all the medical certificates, or how he was a lawyer, uh, and had passed the bar in California but now needed to take the bar exam in Louisiana, how he taught high school, how he impersonated a Secret Service agent. Music: There was no question that the real Frank was everything he claimed to be.

Javier: Here's what Leonardo DiCaprio had to say about the man he portrayed on the silver screen.

Leonardo Dicaprio: In talking with Frank, you realize a couple things about him immediately. You realize that even though that he is one of the biggest bank robbers of all time, he really is genuinely a good person that was misguided and was young when all this stuff happened. It wasn't like he was a petty thief in the sense that he would take a wallet out of an old man's pocket or, you know, try to steal something from, you know, a mom and pop store or something like that. He would always go after the biggest corporations, and it would never be a situation where he would steal from somebody personally.

Javier: Ah, but Leo, what you don't know is that he did in effect steal a wallet from an old man's pocket, and he really did steal from mom and pop stores. Frank Abagnale Jr. is no Robin Hood. According to the police records I have right in front of me, he'll steal from just about anyone. And today you're going to hear firsthand from a family who took him in, only to realize that they were robbed blind. In this episode, we're going to cover Frank Abagnale's life from the period of 1964, when he was 16, to the year 1969, when he turned 21. During this time period, he was supposedly masquerading as a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer, and even a professor. But if he wasn't really doing all that, then where was he? Well, he was sitting in jail and prison almost the entire time. Today I'm going to attempt to reconstruct the real Frank Abagnale timeline to prove to you that there is no way that he had time to pull off any of his legendary stunts. I'm Javier Leva, and this is Pretend, stories about real people pretending to be someone else.

Frank Abagnale: I was raised, uh, just north of New York City, uh, in Westchester County, New York, about 25 miles north of the city. My parents, after 22 years of marriage, one day decided to get a divorce. I had no idea what was going on. I remember driving up to the stone building that said Family Court, not really understanding what that meant, and I walked up to stand between my parents. And I remember that the judge never looked at me. The judge just said that my parents were getting a divorce, and I had to tell the court which parent I wanted to live with, my mother or my father. And I got very upset and started to cry, so I turned around and ran out of the courtroom, and the judge called for a 10-minute recess, and by the time my parents got outside, I was gone. So my mother never saw me for again about seven years, and my father, unfortunately, never, ever saw me again, ever.

Javier: According to Frank Abagnale, he grabbed what he could, stuffed it into a backpack, and headed out to New York City.

Frank Abagnale: One day, 5:00 in the evening, walking up 42nd Street, pondering all of this, 16, I started to approach a, a old hotel called the Commodore Hotel, now the Grand Hyatt, and out stepped an Eastern Airline flight crew right in front of me, captain, co-pilot, flight engineer, about three or four flight attendants. And I watched them board their bags into the van, and I thought to myself, "What a perfect front. I mean, if I could pose as this pilot, I could fly all over the world for free. I could get just about anybody anywhere to cash a check for me."

Javier: The way he tells it, it has every hallmark of a superhero origin story. A 16-year-old boy runs away from home, lost in the largest city in America, then by chance, he encounters a pilot surrounded by four beautiful flight attendants. The pilot's uniform was Frank Abagnale's cape, and his superpower was mind control. So he begins hanging around airports, dressed as a pilot, cashing bogus checks from airlines. The only problem with this story is that this whole pilot episode didn't happen until much later on in his life. The truth is that at age 16, Frank Abagnale did in fact wear a uniform, a very honorable uniform, but it wasn't a pilot's uniform. At 16 years old, Frank Abagnale enlisted in the United States Navy. But Frank Abagnale never, ever talks about this. Why not? He brags about much crazier things, but serving your country should be something anyone would be proud of, right? Well, maybe it's because he quit or was discharged eight weeks after he enrolled. Maybe his brief military career goes against his bad boy image. Maybe it was embarrassing that he couldn't make it past the 10 weeks of boot camp. And how do I know this? Because I'm holding a national personnel record in my hands, and it says very clearly that Frank William Abagnale served in the United States Navy from December 23rd, 1964, to February 18th, 1965. That's 57 days. Prior to his blink-of-an-eye military career, young Frank was accused of ripping off small businesses, like a local laundromat in New York. One week after coming home from the Navy, Abagnale was arrested again for forging checks. Eventually, Frank Abagnale did run away from home, but he didn't go couch surfing at a friend's house. He didn't hustle the streets of New York like he said he did. Right before his big getaway, Frank made one last stop at a gas station. And will you believe this? He got ahold of the gas station owner's checkbook, and later cashed checks for the equivalent of $3,300 today. With cash in his wallet, it was time to make a run for it, but first he needed a ride. According to the Southern District of New York state records, Abagnale broke into a brand new 1965 yellow Ford Mustang and drove it across the country all the way to Eureka, California. I mean, not long after he arrived in Eureka, Abagnale checked into a motel posing as a US border patrol agent in order, you know, to get a discount. He then made a pit stop at a bank and opened a brand new checking account. But the bank teller was immediately suspicious and contacted the local authorities, who then called the FBI. Oh, oh, is this when the FBI starts chasing him around the country and around the world? Eh, unfortunately, the real story is a little bit of a letdown. FBI Special Agent Richard Miller spotted the yellow Mustang, radioed the police, and eventually Abagnale was arrested Note to self, if you're running away from the cops, don't drive a bright yellow Mustang. This chase lasted minutes, not years. Don't believe me? I have the pictures of his arrest on my website. Abagnale was arrested on several federal charges, including impersonating a customs officer. Now, here is the fun part, the part of the show where we compare the story Abagnale has told for more than 45 years to what really happened. According to Abagnale legend, he ran away from home and never saw his father again. Let's play this clip from a recent speech at Google.

Frank Abagnale: In the real life, I never saw my father after I ran away. Uh, in the movie, they keep having him come back to Christopher Walken in the film who was nominated for the Academy Award for that role as my father. Uh, that didn't really happen.

Javier: Oh, but it did happen. Frank Abagnale did see his father again when Frank Sr. flew all the way from New York to California to bail him out. And to this point in the story, Frank Abagnale had never donned a pilot's uniform. Heck, he may not have even flown in a plane until his father brought him home. When he returned to New York, Abagnale ordered a uniform from the All Built Uniform Company in Manhattan. He was then seen at a tailor shop. It makes sense. A real pilot wouldn't wear a baggy off-the-rack suit. Could it be that Frank Abagnale was getting his pilot costume tailored fit? Detective Sergeant Henry Norman of the Tuckahoe Police Department was watching all this as Abagnale went in and out of the tailor shop. It was a stakeout, and he was arrested right on the spot. Remember, according to Abagnale canon, he was only arrested once, and that was in France. Here's Abagnale talking again at that Google event.

Frank Abagnale: Of course, like any criminal, sooner or later you'd get caught, and I was no exception to that rule. I was actually arrested just once in my life when I was 21 years old by the French police in a small town in southern France called Montpelier.

Javier: But as you and I already know, Frank is only 17 years old, and he's been in and out of jail this entire time. Remember, according to him, he's been flying the world for almost two years now, posing as an airline pilot But back to reality. The real Frank Abagnale was in a heap of trouble, and he wasn't gonna get away with it this time. A week after his arrest, Frank Abagnale Jr. was sentenced to three years for forgery and was to serve his time at the Great Meadow Correctional Institute in Comstock, New York. His days masquerading as a pilot, doctor, lawyer, professor will just have to wait. Remember, according to Abagnale, his escapades only lasted from the age of 16 to 21, and so far, our records show that he's been in and out of prison from the age of 16 to right up to his 21st birthday. That doesn't leave a lot of time for him to live out his career day fantasies and travel all around the world. But I'll throw him a bone. At some point, Frank Abagnale did actually pose as a pilot.

Frank Abagnale: I got out to LaGuardia, and I started walking around the airport in the uniform trying to figure out, now that I had the uniform, how the hell do you get on these planes? I got hungry about lunchtime, and I walked in the luncheonette, sat down at the counter on a stool, and a TWA crew walked in, and the flight attendant sat down in a booth. Pilot sat down on the counter right next to me. And back before deregulation of the airlines, people just thought of themselves as one big family. They didn't hesitate a moment to talk to each other, and the captain kind of leaned over and said, "Hey, young man, how's Pan Am doing?" "Doing just fine, Captain." "By the way, what's Pan Am doing out here at LaGuardia? Pan Am doesn't fly into LaGuardia. They only go into Kennedy." Now, he said, "Well, tell me, young man, what type of equipment are you on?" And I thought, "What type of equipment am I on?" So I said, "Yes, General Electric." Well, all three pilots kind of just stopped eating and leaned over. Captain said, "Oh, really? What do you fly, washing machines?" I knew I said the wrong thing, and out the door I went.

Javier: Did anyone notice that he just stole that joke from Johnny Carson?

Frank Abagnale: Said hello, and he said, "What kind of equipment are you on?" So I said, "General Electric."

Javier: What, did he think you were flying a washer or something? I don't know. I generally- I don't know about you, but I like Carson's delivery better. But putting all jokes and plagiarism aside, Abagnale may have been able to squeeze in a few free flights during this time period, in between prison and parole, that is, and he also managed to cash a few checks here and there at the Pan Am airline counter. But in reality, he did not steal $2.5 million from the airlines. Records show that he only managed to cash 10 Pan Am checks over a 12-week period, amounting to, wait for it, wait for it, only $1,448.60. That's less than $1,500, a far cry from the $2.5 million he claimed he stole from the airlines. That's quite a big difference, 2.5 million. Don't you think that the airlines would have noticed $2.5 million missing from their account? Again, every hero has an origin story, but much like the comic books, the record clearly shows that most of Frank Abagnale's childhood stories are mostly make-believe I have right here, right in front of me, Frank Abagnale's inmate card. It clearly states that from June 1965 to December 1968, Frank W. Abagnale Jr. was, for the most part, behind bars. By the way, I printed this inmate card and showed it to him when I confronted him in Vegas. You won't believe what he had to say about that. When we come back, you're gonna hear from a flight attendant who flew with Frank Abagnale. She's going to tell us a story about how this phony pilot ripped her family off Hi, Paula. It's

Speaker: Music: Javier. How's

Javier: it going?

Paula Parks: It's going okay. How's it going with you?

Javier: Paula Parks was a Delta Airlines flight attendant for 15 years. She'll never forget her unfortunate encounter with Frank Abagnale. Great. I'm so glad that we connected, because your story, I mean, that's just incredible. I had never heard that story before.

Paula Parks: Well, yeah. I, I didn't really talk about it too much, you know, until he started going on, uh, TV telling his story, and I'm just going, "What a liar," you know? Yeah. 'Cause he had stolen certainly from little people. My daddy was a teacher, my mother was a nurse. You can barely put food on the table with those salaries, so-

Javier: Ugh yeah. And then people just scoop it up. They just eat, eat his lies and just accept it as true. It's like Spielberg said it was true, so it must be true, and- Yeah ... then he has so much validation, you know, from the media.

Paula Parks: That's what's so sad about it. And after... My friends would call me and say, "You know your boyfriend's on TV?" And I'd go, "Who?" 'Cause I was married at the time. I said, "Who are you talking about?" And they said, "Frank Abagnale." I went, "You're kidding me." And then every time he was on Oprah or Phil Donahue or they would call me and tell me. And so I would listen, and then I just started to... You know, I sent an email to the Today Show and said, "He's lying. You know, do y'all even care?" And it was just amazing to me that he got away with everything and-

Javier: Well, he hasn't really gotten away with everything. Like I said before, several journalists and others have called him out on his lies. The problem is it just doesn't stick. Even today, if you go on the Frank Abagnale Wikipedia page, you'll see all this evidence plain as day, but no one cares. Even Alan Logan, a researcher who collected most of these documents and published a book about it, has been unsuccessful in holding Abagnale accountable. And how do I know this? Well, because companies keep booking Frank Abagnale to speak at their conferences. Yeah.

Promo: And I mean, even after Alan's book, it seems

Javier: like that doesn't even stop him. Like, it doesn't even- Well- ... phase him, not even a little bit.

Paula Parks: Not a bit, not a bit. And the thing that's so sad is none of the big publishers would publish his book because they said that's like telling people there's no Santa Claus. Everybody loves him. Well, how can you say that? He's a liar, a cheat. You know, he's just a con man, for God's sakes. How can you, how can you even think that? But- It's pretty incredible ... but it, it, it is pretty incredible. And if it hadn't happened to me, I'd probably just go, "Oh, this is not true. This can't be true." I was very naive. I was very taken with him. My parents were very taken with him, and we just fell right into his trap. Well, it was, it was my first year of flying, and he got on my flight. I was standing... Uh, we were supposed to have left. We were waiting for baggage, and I was gonna lock the plane up and put the slide in position, and here he comes in his TWA uniform. Got... I said, "Well," I said, "I hope you're not this late for all your flights because we were, we were supposed to be gone, and you would've missed this flight." And he just kind of put his head back and looked at me, and I said, "Do you have a jump seat authority or a ticket?" And he showed me his pass. He went into the cockpit, and I went back to the back, and we closed the gate and closed the door. And I was in the back and, and he started walking to the back, and I said, "I thought you were gonna sit in the cockpit." And he said, "No." He said, "It's too uncomfortable up there. I'm gonna sit back here."

Javier: Let me ask you something. I wanna interrupt really quick just for context. Could you kind of describe what a jump seat is or a deadhead?

Paula Parks: If you had, um, an ID, you could get a jump seat authority on another airline, which means that you could get on the airline and, and ride in the, uh, cockpit with the crew. But you didn't have to if the plane was empty. If the plane was full, yes, you had to sit up there. But if the plane was empty, you could basically move to the back, and that's what he did.

Javier: So that in a sense, then, i- the only thing unusual is that he was late for the flight that was supposed to have taken off. But other than that, uh, a pilot from another airline taking a jump seat was probably not that uncommon, right?

Paula Parks: Oh, no. It wasn't uncommon at all.

Javier: You know, you see this guy. He's dressed like a pilot. A- at any moment in, in, throughout that night, did you suspect that maybe he wasn't a pilot? Or did that even cross your mind?

Paula Parks: Not that he wasn't a pilot. He had a guy with him that was h- supposed to be his co-pilot. They were going down to Miami to ferry a plane back to New York.

Javier: He enters the plane, he goes into the cockpit. You go back to the back of the plane and- Mm-hmm ... then what happens? He kind of came to

Paula Parks: the back. Well, the guy that he brought with him had a ticket, and he was not in uniform, and he went back to the back to sit. And then Frank came out of the cockpit and as I looked up, he was walking towards me to the back. And the guy that was with him, he, he introduced him as his co-pilot, and a few minutes later, that guy, uh, lit up a cigarette. And I looked at him and I said, "What are you doing? You can't smoke on the ground." I said, "Don't you know better than that?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, just I'm, I'm just nervous about this flight," or something like that. That was the only thing that... But never, never pa- crossed my mind that he wasn't a pilot. No, he had all the bells and whistles. He had the ID badge, he had, uh, the wings, he had, uh, all the braid and everything. It, it just never, no, it never occurred to me he wasn't a pilot.

Javier: And so when he went back to the back of the plane where you were sitting, what happened next?

Paula Parks: Well, we were getting ready to take off. He just started talking to us, and then when, you know, the whole time he- we just kind of... He'd make comments and I'd make a comment, and then after we finished our service, we all just kind of sat there and, and talked. And he was very charming. I mean, he, he was talking about flying and the places he'd been. But as we were coming in to Miami, he asked if he could take us out to eat. Well, it was like 2:00 or 3:00 o'clock in the morning, and believe it or not, Miami shut down back then, and we went to a Wiener Schnitzel. That was the only thing open.

Javier: Oh, but was that the name of the restaurant or-

Paula Parks: Yeah. Oh. It was a h- it was a... Yeah, it was a hotdog stand. That was the only place we could find open. After we had our hotdogs, he got a cab and we went. He dropped us off at, uh, the hotel where we were staying, and I told him, "Thank you very much," you know, and everybody said thank you, and we went to our rooms, and he went to wherever he went to, and-

Javier: Paula told me that she never expected to cross paths with Frank again. That's just the way it goes in the travel industry.

Paula Parks: The next day we were sleeping late, but there was a flashing red light on the phone, which meant we had a message, and thinking it was crew scheduling, picked up the phone and I said, "You have a message for us?" And he said, "Oh, yeah, no. Paula, there's something here at the front desk for you, and you need to come get it." I said, "From who? Crew scheduling?" And he said, "No, no, but it's in our way." So I took the curlers out of my hair and put my uniform on and went down there, and it was two dozen red roses and a five-pound box of candy- Hmm ... from Frank saying, um, "Will you have lunch with me?" And there was a phone number. Well, you know, we're not gonna pass up a lunch. And he picked us up in a convertible, and we had our uniform, we had our suitcases, because he was gonna have to drop us off at the airport. And when we got to the airport, he said, "I sure had fun," and he said, "If you don't mind, can I call you sometime?" And I said, "Sure, I'd enjoy that." 'Cause I said, the guy was charming. I mean, he really, really was. But I gave him my phone number and I said, "Well, I'll see you around," and he said okay. And we got on the plane and we flew, I think, for another day, and then we went home. And as we're getting off the plane, he's standing there. And I said, "What are you doing here?" And he said, "Well, my flight got canceled." He said, "We didn't have to ferry the plane back, and I decided to come see you." And I said, "Okay." And I didn't even think about how did he know when I was getting in. It just didn't occur to me at the time. And then he left, and I was flying to Washington, DC, and I got to Washington and got off the plane, and there he was.

Frank Abagnale: Wow.

Paula Parks: I said, "Are you kidding me?" I said, "How did you know where I was gonna be?" And, and he said, "I just talked to the guys at crew scheduling." I went with the crew to the hotel and checked in. So he he took me around Washington and had a good time, and I thanked him, and then flew the same trip three days later, got to Washington, and there he was

Javier: 'Cause I think that's another thing that people are gonna find hard to believe. Like, how could somebody fake a pilot uniform? Like, if I go to a costume shop now, I could get a pilot- Oh,

Paula Parks: no, no, no, he bought them. He bought them. I was with him in Washington when he bought, uh, two uniforms.

Javier: And how- Yeah ... how did he make that happen? How was he able to pull that off?

Paula Parks: He, he had an ID. He had a TWA ID. He walked in with the uniform on. When, when we first... When he started meeting my planes, he never, never had anything on but that TWA uniform. I never saw him in anything other than that. And we walked into a uniform shop in Washington, and he told them what he wanted. He wanted two pairs of slacks, two white shirts, one jacket, and the guy measured him. That's how he got the uniform. Yeah, I was right there with him when he got those.

Promo: That's pretty incredible.

Javier: Paula tells me that Frank bought her a really expensive camera. He would show up randomly, take her out to dinner, buy her flowers. And Paula- Uh ... that, that must have been a really, really bizarre feeling because either it's a grand gesture, right, that could be- It did ... super-duper romantic, or it could- ... be extremely creepy. What were you feeling at the time?

Paula Parks: Well, n- now the creepy is, is starting to come in. I'm just going... And, and also, I didn't... He s- I don't even know how to say this. He smelled so bad. My roommate, when he left, said, "My Lord, that guy's got GAFO." I said, "What is that?" And she said, "Gorilla armpit odor." I said, "I know. I wonder what it is." And she said, "I don't know, but it's," she said, "It's not even like BO." It was stronger than that, but I did... The next day, I got on the plane, and I flew home. When I got home, there he was. I said, "What are you doing here?" And he said, "Well, I just wanted to come see you." And I said, "Well, I'm going to Baton Rouge. I'm going to see my parents." And then I said, "Do you wanna come with me?" Because I thought, "This is gonna be it. My mother is going to know," because my mother, I figured she would say, "Paula, get rid of this guy." And I, I said, "Yeah, okay." So I called her on the phone, and I said, "I'm bringing the TWA pilot home with me. Is that okay?" And she said, "Yeah, that's great."

Javier: But why? Why would you- I- That, you lost me there. Like, this guy is, like, being super creepy, and why would you wanna bring him home?

Paula Parks: I wanted my parents to meet him. I wanted them... I, I wasn't a good judge of character. I was too naive. My mother, on the other hand, I thought was an excellent judge of character, and I think I wanted them to say, "You know, you're right. There's something wrong with this guy."

Javier: Right. You wanted some sort of validation, right?

Paula Parks: Yeah. Well, you have to understand, back then, catching a TWA pilot would be a huge thing.

Javier: Yeah.

Paula Parks: I mean, they were the king of the skies. Pan Am, TWA, United. I mean, Delta was just brand new, and everybody wanted to marry a pilot.

Javier: Yeah.

Paula Parks: And I thought, "I don't want this guy to get away." I just trusted my parents' judgment so much, and I was still basically a new kid away from home and, and just kinda winging it. I didn't know what I was doing. So I did, I took him home, and, uh, and they loved him.

Javier: They loved

Paula Parks: him? They just... They loved him. They thought he was charming and fascinating and, oh my gosh, what a catch. And, and I remember thinking then, "Mm-mm. I'm gonna break up with this guy. I'm gonna tell him I don't wanna see him anymore." And we were leaving, going out the door, and my mother said, "Frank, if you're ever in this area, come see us. I'll teach you how to fish." He'd never been fishing. But when she said that, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, and I turned around and looked at her like, "What? I mean, you like him?" And I just... I was just... I was really stunned. I really was. Um-

Javier: Was he an attractive guy back then? Like, how would you describe him?

Paula Parks: Uh, he... Well, you know what? I, I had so much animosity for him. I'd, I'd... Uh, I... No. If he had looked like Leonardo DiCaprio, I would be- ... just fun Kevin now, but he didn't. Uh, but I... My roommate, you know, other than the smell, thought he was handsome. Both of them. He had black hair. He had a little bit of silver in it, which I think it is what made me think he was older. He was younger than me, actually. My roommates thought he was handsome, and I, I just... I couldn't see it. Uh, my mother thought he was very handsome. And like I say, just... I was just shocked. I, I wanted them to say, "Boy, you were right about him." They didn't say that until after he got arrested.

Javier: But I wanted to go back and ask Paula about the smell, because I've learned that fear does in fact have a smell. Your body has apocrine glands that are found usually where you have hair, such as your armpits and your groin, and these glands release a milky fluid when you're stressed or have anxiety. And this fluid is normally odorless until it comes in contact with bacteria on your skin. The result is a pungent odor that many describe as rancid and musty.

Paula Parks: And I say he smelled so bad and that the, um, the person I was talking to said it was probably fear.

Javier: But what could Frank Abagnale possibly be worried about? As it turns out, according to my handy dandy timeline, Frank Abagnale Jr. was just released from Great Meadow Correctional Institute in Comstock, New York just a few days prior to meeting Paula. He's almost 20 years old now. Almost a week after being released from prison, he's back at it again. He was supposed to be hanging low, but instead he was flying high. No wonder he smelled bad. The poor guy was scared shitless.

Paula Parks: It wasn't just BO, it was just like a, a very, um, very, very strong odor. And my... I mean, it got to be a joke. My daddy would tell him, "Okay, Frank, we're going-" "... to the restaurant, so jump in the shower now." And- Mm-hmm ... Daddy would say he'd come back out smelling the same.

Javier: You bring him home to meet your parents, almost as a way to validate and, like, gut check, "Hey, this is kind of... This guy's very charming. He's a pilot. That's a big deal." You liked him- Mm-hmm ... but you weren't sure. You had some doubt. He was kinda creepy. That, after that first visit, what happened? Like, how... Was that a weekend or, like, how long was that visit, and when did you discover that he came back? Yeah. W-

Paula Parks: yeah. Well, the visit was just drove down to Baton Rouge. We had dinner, and then we drove back.

Javier: Oh,

Paula Parks: okay. So we were there probably about five hours, and in that five hours, he totally charmed my family.

Javier: Yeah.

Paula Parks: He had stories. He had great stories. My mama called me, and she said, um, "You're not gonna believe this." I said, "Frank's there." And she said, "Yes." I said, "I believe it." I said, "I told you you shouldn't have invited him." I said- Right ... "There's something wrong with that guy." And she said, "Oh, Paula, he, he's nice." And I said, "Well, you have a good time, and you let me know when he's gone, and I'll come back and see you because I, I don't want anything to do with him."

Javier: Paula assures me that she never dated Frank Abagnale. She says she never even held his hand.

Paula Parks: And my brother fell in love with him. My daddy fell in love with him. He went to church with my daddy. But in the South, everybody's just very open arm, "Yeah, come on in." Right. "Let's have something to eat," and just e- just openly kind. He just charmed them to death.

Javier: Frank Abagnale is a self-proclaimed opportunist, so it shouldn't shock you what he's about to do next, but boy, I still can't believe it. A week after visiting Paula's parents for the first time-

Paula Parks: So he knocked on the door one day, and he moved in with them.

Javier: Yes, yes, you heard right. Frank Abagnale moved in with Paula's parents

Paula Parks: And he would get dressed every few days in his uniform and then be gone, just like a pilot would. And then he would come back. And I remember asking my mother, I said, "Did you invite him to live with y'all?" And she said, "Well, that's just the way it kinda happened. I mean, it's, you know, uh, we have your room..." I said, "He's sleeping in my room?" And sh- she said, "Yes."

Javier: Oh my God.

Paula Parks: I just, I said, "Oh my God, Mom, I can't. Uh-uh."

Javier: And he even had a key- Uh ... to your house.

Paula Parks: Yes. They gave him a key to the house.

Javier: That's insane.

Paula Parks: That's how trusting... It is insane.

Javier: Well, in hindsight it's insane. But- But like you said, th- that's h- Southern hospitality, right?

Paula Parks: Yes, very much so. Um, Javier, somebody's knocking at my door.

Javier: Yeah. No, no, no. Go get that. Go get that. We're gonna take a quick break while Paula answers her front door. Grab some water, beer, whatever you like, because we're just getting started. You know, you went for the visit. It was only a five-hour visit. A week later he shows up at your house, and now all of a sudden he's staying with your family. And it was, it's weird now, but it, it, it's, it's... Obviously he was a, he seemed like a nice guy. He was a pilot. Yeah. That's an- Any southern family would've done the same thing, right?

Paula Parks: Well, it is. Missouri is the show me state, and Louisiana is the come on in, let's eat some crawfish state. Uh, I don't know how to, to explain it better than that.

Javier: So let me ask you a question. Yeah. How do you get rid of this guy?

Paula Parks: Uh, I just didn't go home. I, I just, I just did not go home.

Javier: During his time in Baton Rouge, Abagnale would sleep and eat at the Parks house. He would even go to church with them. This is where he befriended Reverend Earl Underwood. Reverend Underwood could sense that Frank was a broken man. He took Abagnale under his wing while the furloughed pilot could figure out how to land on his feet.

Paula Parks: Yeah, they went to my daddy's church, and he was talking to the minister there that he wanted to start a youth organization. And so Brother Underwood set him up with some of the professors from LSU.

Javier: Reverend Underwood told them that Frank Abagnale was a furloughed pilot looking to make a career change. He told them that Abagnale even had a graduate degree from Ithaca College. He's no dummy. Frank Abagnale knew that his time living under the Parks' roof was coming to an end. So he told them that he was moving out, and Paula tells me that her parents were actually sad to see him go.

Paula Parks: The, they took him to play golf and called Brother Underwood and said, "This guy is a phony. He doesn't have degrees in anything." And we don't know what's up, but you need to be careful.

Javier: The LSU professors did a little digging, and it turns out that Frank Abagnale never attended Ithaca College.

Paula Parks: What happened is the, uh, professors, when they talked to Brother Underwood, he started thinking about our mom and dad. He called TWA, and he said, "I'm, I'm really embarrassed, but I have to ask, do you have a pilot named Frank Abagnale?"

Javier: After Reverend Underwood called TWA, the airline called the local sheriff's office. Frank Abagnale Jr. was arrested for vagrancy. Come to find out, he was also robbing local small businesses. And come to think of it, how did Frank Abagnale know where Mr. Parks kept his checkbook? Could it be that he was possibly rifling through their stuff? Mr. Parks told the local newspaper, and I quote, "He was buying my wife flowers and taking us out to eat all the time. It was my money." Mrs. Parks said that, "He had a key to our front door." She told the paper, "I fed him. I cooked. I think the thing that hurts me the most was that someone would come into our home. I don't trust people as much anymore."

Paula Parks: And he said his heart just sank. And they got on the phone, and they say, said, "Do not tell him that we're coming." And Brother Underwood said, "Well, actually, he's in jail. He was arrested for loitering."

Javier: Actually, it was vagrancy. Earlier that week on Valentine's Day in 1969, Abagnale was stopped by detectives in Baton Rouge. Abagnale told the officers that he was a TWA pilot, but of course, the detectives already knew that wasn't true. They had already spoken with TWA and confirmed that Abagnale had taken at least one deadhead flight posing as a pilot. Perhaps this was the same flight where he met Paula. That's incr- incredible because now the truth is starting to come out.

Paula Parks: It was Mardi Gras Day. I do remember that, 'cause I was getting ready to go downtown. And, uh, my mother called, and as soon as I heard her voice, I said, "He's in jail, isn't he?" And she said, "Yes." I said, "Okay, I'm coming home." And I w- I went home, and they were just devastated. I mean, just Heartbroken that he would do that to them 'cause they had been so kind, taking him in and, um, I just don't even know how to explain how it affected my mother. Uh, it changed her forever and, uh, and that's why I hate the guy. He just broke her heart, literally broke her heart. It makes me sad right now to even think about how it changed her. Yeah.

Javier: Even after these years, right?

Paula Parks: Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Javier: What hurts the most is probably not the money that he, he stole from them, but the betrayal,

Paula Parks: right? No. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He was in the jail writing to my mother, asking her to get him a lawyer, sending her flowers with her money, I'm sure. The judge, uh, l- let him go. His daddy paid his bail money, and he took off and went to Europe.

Javier: But you know, Frank goes around saying that, that this was a victimless crime, all the, this escapade that he did throughout his life. No one really got hurt. It was just... It's just a fun story, right? Uh, but, but that's not true, is it?

Paula Parks: No. No. Daddy was a very good bookkeeper about his checks. He had a big ledger, and he said Frank one time made the comment, "You really do k- keep good books." And, and Daddy said, "Yeah, I do." Mm. Daddy said it didn't dawn on him then to, you know, check the back of the ledger, and sure enough, some checks were gone. He stole from my mom. He stole from my brother, who was the bag boy at the grocery store, took his savings. To, to be perfectly honest with you, I totally forgot about this guy until he started showing up on TV, and then it just started making me a l- because it upset my mother all over again. When Leonardo DiCaprio was on the Today Show and he said, "What I like about this guy is he never really hurt the little people. He only went after the big money, the big corporations," he hurt little people. He stole from little people. He stole from my daddy, who was a teacher, my mother, who was a nurse. You don't get more pitiful salaries than that. That's what made me really start to hate him, to tell you the truth. I just really hadn't given him that much thought. I, I disliked him intensely. My mother told me he was on Johnny Carson. Someone else said that they had seen him on To Tell the Truth, and I started going, "God, this guy's getting famous after doing horrible things." And then the movie started coming out.

Javier: When I tell my friends about this, they don't believe me. I mean, I know- I know ... they believe me, but they don't believe me. And why are people so in denial about this?

Paula Parks: I think it's because of that damn movie. Everybody loves that movie. Everybody loves Frank Abagnale because he is the, the hero in that movie. He's a, a crook that got away with it. I think it's, that's my theory on why people love him. They think he got away with it, and nobody wants to believe the truth. They don't wanna hear the truth. This is a, a folk hero to them. Would you be interested in any of these letters from Frank? I have some letters from Frank to my mother.

Javier: What did the letters say exactly? Do you remember?

Paula Parks: Uh, I can get one and read it to you. I still have-

Javier: Sure.

Paula Parks: Okay All right, this is the letter I believe Frank wrote. "Mr. and Mrs. Parks and family, I have been trying to write this letter for three weeks, but it's been difficult. There are no words to express how ashamed and sorry I am. I cannot ask for forgiveness. However, I want you to please understand that I had no control over what I did. I love you all very much, and the last thing I want to do is hurt one of you. I'll never forget what I did. I think of it 24 hours a day. I'll be sorry for the rest of my life. I have problems and I need help. I've been begging for help for five years. Please believe that the way I felt about you all was no lie, though the rest was. Maybe I have no right writing this letter, and I won't write anymore, but please believe in your heart that I'm sorry, very sorry, and please believe that I could not help what I did. You people have showed me more love in six weeks than I have ever seen in my l- lifetime. Even though I will go to prison, every cent I owe you will be repaid. Myself, I will have to live with what I have done. That, to me, is worse than any jail. I'm sorry. God is my judge. I love you all, and I'm deeply sorry. Love always, Frank."

Javier: Hmm. And did he ever repay your family?

Paula Parks: No. I'd like to have that with interest, please.

Javier: That's, you know, and, you know, reading that, it sounds really sincere. It almost sounds like a cry for help. Like, I wonder, you know, I know he's a liar, right?

Paula Parks: Uh-huh.

Javier: But, I mean, he does have a problem. He's a compulsive liar, right? Like, I wonder how much of that was, like, a, a cry for help, and how much of this is just part of his DNA that he can't control.

Paula Parks: Well, I don't know. That's, that's the thing. I mean, obviously, my parents were very good to him, and he probably did feel more love from them. I don't think his family was all that close. Irregardless, I mean, he's just a, you know, a con man, a con boy at the time. He wasn't, uh, he wasn't a man at all. Oh, here's one from his mother to Reverend Underwood. I am Frank Abagnale's mother, and I want to thank you very much for the kindness and interest you have shown my son. He is in dire need of help. I mean, psychiatric help. He, as he seems to have a compulsion to write checks and is unable to stop.

Javier: Here's Frank Abagnale's mother in her own words, smashing his legendary story into a million pieces.

Paula Parks: And is unable to stop. He has spent three years in Great Meadows Correctional Institute in Comstock, New York.

Javier: I mean, she said for three years he's been in prison. How in the world could he have possibly pulled off any of the stunts he's based his life and career on? It's a lie

Paula Parks: He came home and was writing checks a week later, spent another year in Comstock, and was writing checks again. So evidently, this had been going on for quite a while.

Javier: You know what's interesting about that letter from his mother is that she is laying down a timeline. Uh-huh. So right before he moved in with your parents, and right before he met you on that airplane, he was in jail. Right, he was in jail. Mm-hmm. So from- Yeah 1965 to 1968, he was from 17 years old to 20, almost 21 years old, he was in jail, and this is the same time period that he was supposedly rendezvousing around the world, right?

Paula Parks: Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and I guess that's probably what's kinda striking to me is the fact that, that all this can be proven, but nobody wants to prove it. Nobody wants to look at it. Nobody wants to believe it.

Javier: In a sense, his mother really, with

Promo: that one letter, completely blew the whole premise of his story, right?

Paula Parks: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Javier: Years and years went by, and Paula moved on with her life. She got married, had kids. Paula even changed careers and became a nurse. Her parents eventually both passed away, but they never fully recovered from their criminal houseguest. Paula never forgot. While Frank Abagnale was flaunting his fictitious stories on any platform that gave him time, she was still livid. So in 2020, Paula bought a ticket to one of Frank Abagnale's keynote events. Recently, didn't you confront him?

Paula Parks: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, my mother had passed by then. Said he's gonna be speaking at the Louisiana Business Association or something like that. I said, "Uh, I'm gonna go." I said, "What's he gonna do?" I bought a ticket. I went. I got in line. I was buying a book, and I wanted him to sign it. So I get up close to the table where he's sitting, and, um, uh, and I, I know he, he knew me. I kept looking over at the guy in front of me's shoulder, and he saw me, and I... You know, and then I would get behind the guy, and then I'd look back over. So I, he, he knew who I was, but acted like he didn't when I got up there. And I said, "Hi, Frank. You know who I am?" And he goes, "Um, are you the woman whose husband want, wanted to surprise with a..." I said, "No, Frank." I'm Paula. I'm the stewardess that you met, whose family you lived with, whose money you stole. You remember? Is it coming back to you now?" And, uh, he said, "Do you want me to sign that?" I said, "Yes, I do." I said, "I want you to write to John and Charlotte, I am so sorry, Frank." And he did. And I've got the book. I don't think I even said my name, to tell you the truth. I remember saying, "I'm the stewardess that you met," and then he knew my name was Paula when he signed that book. Some people just wanna believe what they wanna believe, and it's just a shame that they don't wanna hear the truth. But it just was a very trying time, for I guess I was kind of unhappy about it for well over a year. My parents, my mother went to her grave hating him, and, uh, and that's a shame. I just kept trying to tell her, "Mom, it's just a good story. It's just a good story." I just, I just know my part of the story. I don't know if, if any of it's true or not, but he did steal from my parents. He says he's never stolen from anybody little, but he's stolen from little people all over the world. It, it, it wasn't just my parents. Like I say, it's a good story now, but, uh, at the time it just did some pretty bad damage to my family, so. Yeah, yeah. I'll never like him. Probably the third time he showed up in a city where I was, and I said, "How are you getting this information? How do you know where I'm going?" And for me, that was just it. I found the guy just reprehensible, and I was not going to have anything to do with him. So-

Javier: Well, it was so creepy the way he would just show up. That was, like, the most shocking part of the story, because, you know, this is, like, before the internet.

Paula Parks: The thing about it is, back in the day, Delta was a brand-new company. TWA were like the gods. Pan Am were like the gods. And he was posing as a TWA pilot when I met him. And, you know, I mean, he probably would just go in in his uniform to crew scheduling and say, "I'm trying to find my girlfriend. Can you tell me where she is?" Or

Javier: even if people knew about it, they would just shrug it off like, "Oh, he's just really into you. You should be flattered." Yeah.

Paula Parks: Probably so. I was not. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, but you're right. Yeah, you're right. It's very creepy.

Javier: All right. That was part two of The Real Catch Me If You Can. Remember, we release episodes every other week. I'm kind of working on this in real time, but if you wanna listen to part three, it's available right now on pretendradio.org. Hit the donate button, become a Patreon supporter. Trust me, you won't regret it. You get early access to episodes, and also bonus content. So go ahead. If you are a fan of this show and you like what I'm doing and you wanna show some support, go to pretendradio.org. Hit the donate button. Become a Patreon member. You're supporting the show. You're getting good bonus material, T-shirts, stickers, the whole nine yards. And also, don't forget to check out Alan Logan's book titled The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Catching Truth While We Can. Alan Logan has been a partner of mine throughout this whole series. Um, he doesn't wanna be interviewed, but maybe I'll convince him towards the end of the series. Maybe you'll get to hear from Alan. But Alan's book is amazing. His research is amazing. This, this series that you're listening to is just a byproduct of s- all the work that he did to put this together. I'm just kind of retracing his steps. So thank you so much. If you enjoyed the series, please spread the word. Tell your friends. Um, this is c- this is a big story, guys. This is, like, a big story that, um, everybody believes this hoax, and it's your job to go around and tell your friends that this is not true because we don't stand for that kind of stuff, right? Anyway, I will talk to you guys, remember, not next week, but the week after. We release twice a month on Tuesdays. So

The Real Catch Me If You Can: Part Three is available right now on Patreon, but if you, but if you can wait, it'll be available in two weeks. All right, talk to you guys soon. Bye.

Frank Abagnale: Do you obsess over cold cases?

Promo: Do you go down endless rabbit holes on online forums, searching for clues to solve your pet case? Are you an armchair sleuth? If so, we'd like to invite you to check out our new podcast, Citizen Detective.

Frank Abagnale: I'm Mike Morford.

Promo: I'm Amika Gates. And I'm Dr. Lee Mellor. We work hand-in-hand with citizen detectives just like you to examine some of the most puzzling unsolved mysteries out there. Citizen Detective is out right now, and new episodes drop every other Saturday.

Frank Abagnale: Subscribe now so you don't miss a single episode of Citizen Detective.