The Real Catch Me If You Can part 4

Speaker: Frank Abagnale:

Javier: when I first heard about this story.

Speaker: I like you was shocked that. I would, I like you was shocked to discover that Frank Ana's story is greatly exaggerated if not flat out, completely made up. but once I accepted thatI was left with this unsettling feeling. A feeling that this guy's true life story is just plain creepy. Remember Paula parks, the flight attendant from episode two, she describes Anell as a stalker who unexpectedly met her at airport gates from city to city. he was totally tracking her.

Paula Parks: and I was flying to Washington DC, and I got to Washington and got off the plane. And there he was, I said, are you kidding me? I said, how did you know where I was gonna be?

Javier: Paula made the mistake of introducing Frank Ana to her parents. It only took one meeting for that con artist to slither his way into their lives.

Paula Parks: like I say, he, knocked on the door one day and he moved in with him

Javier: were you as creeped out by this? As much as I was

Paula Parks: and I remember asking my mother, I said, did you invite him to live with y'all? And she said, well, that's just the way it kind of happened. I mean, it's, you know, we have your room. Like I said, he's sleeping in my room. And she said, yes,

Javier: We already established that there's no way Frank Abignail could have pulled off any of the stunts that made him famous. Instead he was mostly sitting behind bars from the age of 16 to 21.

Speaker: When we last left off, Frank Ana Was arrested on forgery charges and sentenced to 12 years in prison, but he only ended up serving two years and was released on parole. according to the fictional timeline that ABAG now has Pedald around for almost 40 years now, he claims he was released from prison and was immediately recruited by the FBI. you know, because he's such a brilliant mastermind criminal today. We're gonna take a break from his BS stories and focus on some of the repulsive behavior that was just recently unearthed by author Allen, Logan. What you're gonna hear is a pattern of predatory behavior. That just can't be brushed off as Oh, but men used to treat women differently back in the. You tell me if he crossed the line I'm Javier lava, and this is pretend stories about real people pretending to be someone else in the movie catch.

Javier: Maybe you can. The protagonist teenage Frank AB now is motivated by the desire to bring his divorce parents back together. But in the end, he fails.

Speaker: Father's death

Frank Abagnale: Well, I was sitting in that pitch black cell in France. My father 57 was climbing the subway stairs of New York. As he did every day, he was in great physical shape.

Speaker: He just happened to trip. He reached his arm to break his fall. He slipped, hit his head on a railing, laying that at the bottom of the step he was dead. I didn't know he was dead. I was thinking about him. How much I couldn't wait to see him. Hold him, hug him, kiss him. Tell him how sorry. , but I never got the opportunity to do that.

Javier: As it turns out, maybe his real motivation. Wasn't getting his parents back together. Instead, maybe he was driven by his overactive sex drive.

Speaker: Let me explain in his very own autobiography Avi now claims he flew all around the world with a flock of beautiful steward. This is an excerpt from his autobiography. Catch me if you can. And I quote, I had determined at the outset of the scheme that there would be no personal involvement with any of the girls, but my resolve was endangered a score of times during the course of the summer. Each of them was an outrageous flirt, and I, of course, was a prince of philanderers, and when one of the girls was inclined to make a sexual advance (and each of them did on several occasions), I was hardly prone to fend her off. But I always managed. Abagnale, Frank W.; Redding, Stan. Catch Me If You Can (pp. 208-209). Crown. Kindle Edition. I had determined the outset of the schemes that there would be no personal involvement with any of the girls. but my resolve was endangered a score of times during the course of the summer, each of them was an outrageous flirt And I, of course, was the prince of Philanders. When one of the girls was inclined to make a sexual advance and each of them did on several occasions. I was hardly prone to fend her off, but I always managed in his press kit, which Anell used to propagate his story. there's a photograph of six pan and flight attendants, presumably the same ones who accompanied him around the world. But in reality, Ana never flew with these women. His face wasn't even on the picture, it was a complete and utter far. as reporter IRA Perry pointed out in his story, the women in the picture were in an early 1970s version of the uniform, Which is impossible because ABAG now claims he impersonated a pilot in the sixties, not the seventies to complicate matters. The photograph features a black woman reportedly one of the first African American women hired as a flight attendant that did not happen until 1971. when ABI now was already in prison, the photo is likely part of pan AM's, press release to celebrate their historic effort, to increase diversity. in his autobiography, Anell says he recruited women from the university of Arizona. And that part seems to be true during his investigation. IRA Perry contacted the director of career services at the university of Arizona. Ronald hum. he confirmed that Ana really was trying to recruit co-eds Humel said, and I quote, He just walked into the office one summer wearing his uniform and said he needed to recruit some girls. We got together six or seven, one day and two or three the next day. But before anything happened, the FBI was here calling the girls. But wait a minute. If this part of the story is true, then why was a Bignell recruiting those girls? Was he really trying to fly with them all over the world? Eh, it seems his motivations were a little more perverse Paul Holsen

Javier: before we get into that story.

Speaker: I have to introduce you to a retired pilot, an X CIA operative captain Paul S. I spoke with Paul Olson for 45 minutes on the phone. I thought I was recording, but when I checked the file, it was 45 minutes of silence. Ugh. My computer failed me, but let me tell you that was an extraordinary 45 minutes. I sat back and listened to wholesome. Describe stories of flying into the jungles of central America while working for the CIA. I heard all about the famous political figures he's encountered throughout his career. This guy has lived an amazing life And unlike ABAG now, his stories are probably true. Paul Sen is the real American hero Anell wishes. So you, okay. All right. So you're probably asking what does Paul Sen have anything to do with Frank ABAG now? well back before wholesome was a pilot for the CIA. He was actually a student at the university of Arizona, the same university of Arizona that Anell used to recruit the flight attendants. You see, Sen wanted to line up a commercial airline pilot gig after graduation. And when he found out that there was a PanAm pilot on campus, recruiting students, he jumped at the opportunity. The PanAm pilot, of course, was Frank Ana. He had told the university that he was only recruiting stewards. Sen thought it would still be good to meet with this Ana guy and make a connect. This is how SSON remembers the encounter from his book. And I quote. The day of the interview, I walked over to the hall to see a room of beautiful girls waiting. Sen says that what he didn't expect was the pilot. Frank Ana conducting physical examinations on these women. Sen Sen approached Anell and said, I didn't know, pilots did this Ana replies. Not only am I a pilot, but I'm a doctor too. I do everything interviews and physicals Sen must have thought to himself. This is extremely odd physicals. Why would a pilot need to conduct physicals on a flight attendant, looking for a job and what kind of physical. Was Abignail inappropriately touching these women When Alan Logan first pointed me in the direction of wholesome, I couldn't stop thinking about this. Maybe ABAG now never intended to fly with these girls around the world. Maybe he was just getting his jollies from feeling these girls. If, so that is a very disturbing accusation in his book Sen says that that was the best interview he's ever had. The pilot gave him his number and said that in three weeks they would fly him to New York. three weeks later, Hoen calls the number on the card and nobody knew anything about his interview nor the mysterious pilot recruiter. the next day Sen receives a call from the FBI. when the agents arrived to see him, they showed him a picture of the pilot and they said, ever seen this fellow. that's when Paul Holsen learned that the pilot he interviewed with was a phon. The agents informed him that he stole the uniforms, the credit cards and worse yet. He wasn't even a doctor but Hoen thought, but he did all these physicals on the girls. I had to ask Sen about this encounter, especially about the physicals. What exactly went on in that room Sen told me that Frank Anell was doing quote unquote exams, which was code for taking advantage of them. But he stopped short of going into specifics. I prodded him throughout our call and he finally said, and I quote, there are some things that I will take to the grave. What. This is presumably so bad that he has to take this to the grave. I I can only imagine I offered to show Sen a 1971 university of Arizona yearbook to see if he could recognize any of the women that met with Anell that. He says he has a copy of the yearbook. And it was just so long ago that he can't possibly remember exactly who was there. Sen says that for years, he was furious with ABI. Now for leading him on. I can imagine that was a real career setback for wholesome years later, Paul Sen went to go see a local production of catch me if you can, the musical. and you'll never guess who was there. Frank AIG. Now Sen told me that he approached the conman and told him, I don't know whether I should shake your hand or punch you in the face. In the end, he decided to shake the con man's hand. he even got himself assigned movie poster in book. When we were done with the interview, I sent Sen the thank you note for taking the time to talk with. He replied and ended the email with quote, be careful how you comment on the doctor ventures. Why was he so worried about this? Obviously it was memorable enough for him to write it in his own autobiography And is scared to even elaborate on it. Years later on our call. Again, what the hell happened in that room? What did Frank Anell do to those girls? If anyone listening to this right now went to the university of Arizona around 1971, who knows anything about this? I would love to know the university of Arizona was not the only place Abignail pulled this stunt. The Arizona daily star says that Ana also proud the Arizona state university in Tempe, trying to recruit young women. Anell reportedly interviewed several ASU co-eds and told them that the top candidates would be flown to Los Angeles. but of course, Avi now's recruitment, but of course Ana's recruitment efforts failed because after the university of Arizona and the Arizona state university incidents that. That's when he started writing those bad, that's when he started cashing in those airline payroll checks. and finally the FBI was on his trail. It was over before it even started. but again, let's not forget what Paul Holson told me or better yet what he couldn't tell me. a memory so vile and so disturbing that it had to be taken to the grave, a story. So unforgettable that years later Sen couldn't help, but included in his own autobiography. That's really all you need to know about Frank AIG. and I'm not trying to jump to conclusions here. Frank Ana himself, brags about assaulting unsuspecting women In several interviews, ail open Ana ultimately acknowledges that he performed examinations on young women while impersonating a doctor. I even found this little soundbite from a speech that ane gave at the national automobile dealers association convention, he bragged . One of the girls came by, I was gave them a thorough examination, send them on their way. I was young, but not stupid.

Javier: sexual assault was hysterical back in the day

Speaker: Break

Javier: when we return, we're going to look back at another strange chapter in Frank Ana's real. A time. He's never spoken about publicly.

Speaker: Camp Manison

Javier: We've spent the last three episodes talking about all the events in Frank Ana's life.

Speaker: That didn't actually happen. The pilot, the doctor, the lawyer, those stories. But what about the things that really did happen? There are a lot of holes in ABI nail's life that we just don't know about, but there's one time period near Houston, Texas. That's just plain baffling. You see, there's a disturbing trend throughout his life. When AB where Anell, where Frank Anell gravitates towards children and young adults. When he was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, living with the parks family, Frank got involved with the church youth group. Even if you buy into his made up story, why would a furlough pilot want to quit an airline career to go work with local children? I but we know he was not a pilot. In reality, you gotta ask yourself, why would a convicted felon, fresh outta prison. Want to be anywhere near kids seems odd. Let's take a minute to review our place in the real Frank Ana timeline from the age of 16 to almost 21, he was in and out of jail and prison shortly after being released, he moves in with the parks. He was arrested. Again, gets released on parole. Flees to Europe gets arrested again after sitting for two months after sitting for two months in a French prison, A now is deported back to the us where he finally gets busted for cashing bonus air for cashing bogus, airline paychecks. Are you still with me? He served two out of the 12 year sentence.he served two out of the 12 year sentence and is released on parole. And was released on parole, fresh out of the penitentiary. He should be staying outta trouble, but instead he wanders outside Houston city limits and into the saw and into the small suburb of friend Friendswood, Texas, to hang out with kids, to hang out with kids who are away from their parents. This is where the story kind of takes a bizarre turn. Like I said, Anell was just released on parole. And one of the first things he does is drive to camp Madison, a summer youth camp for kids. That's odd camp Madison is exactly would you picture summer camp to be like in your head? The day begins with the bugle blasting over the camp, Intercom children of all ages line up in the mess halls to eat watery scrambled eggs. Once breakfast is over, they load up their BB guns, practice, archery and paddle canoes camp Madison was established by Tom man, a beloved veteran and local politic. the camp is no longer around, but ask any Texas in the area. And they'll tell you that this camp was enjoyed by children across multiple generations, but it was the summer of 1974. That really sticks out for some of the camp counselors who worked there. It was the year that a furloughed pilot showed up at camp Madison out of nowhere. Why do you think Frank ABNA went to this camp of all places? audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: I don't even know how he found it.

Javier: This is Morris Fu a teacher and artist who worked at camp Madison in 1974.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: he shows up in this car and he's got a, he's got a Delta, airline, uniform and gets out and.

Javier: Were you there the day that he arrived?

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: yeah. Yeah. I, I remember him out in the parking lot. Javier: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: he just kind of showed up there we never discussed that. Never, never, uh, never thought about it a whole lot, Why he ended up at that camp is. Puzzling because it was pretty good at the time. It was pretty good ways outta Houston. so it was kind of out in the woods and you know, there he was.

Javier: It's so strange and dress in a pilot uniform.

Speaker: so here you are, you're volunteering. You're you're in your early twenties and all of a sudden this pilot guy shows up. audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Yeah.

Javier: That was weird, right? Because like who shows up. Dress as a pilot to a camp, you know,

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Yeah. And, and, and it's like, oh, I wonder who this guy. And, and it was kind of a, it was a believable story, uh, because at the time, it was kind of in the midst of the, the gas shortage. Javier: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705:

Javier: if you were around in the 1970s, you'll remember the energy crisis. When petroleum ran low and prices shot up high.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: so a lot of airlines had cut back on flights and pilots. And so he showed up and, and told, uh, uh, Tom that he had been. He had been furloughed, uh, because of, of the energy crisis. And so he was just looking for a job to kind of hold him over until he got to go back to flying.

Javier: So that seems plausible.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Yeah, I he was just real, very convincing.

Javier: So Tom man gave him a job. He could have been a lifeguard, coached volleyball, flipped burgers in the kitchen,

Speaker: But this convicted felon. Chose the role of shutting kids back and forth to camp of all camp jobs, driving a van full of kids completely unsupervised. Hmm. audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: He was an arrogant. Person to begin with, but he certainly was slick. I guess at the time he seemed like a lot older than us. If you, if you've seen the camp picture, I'm standing right next to him. Uh, he, he, we, we tend to think of him as being a lot older and I don't know if he really was.

Javier: I'm looking at the picture now. And so like he's to the right of you

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: yeah, I got the guy

Javier: you look like you're you're what, 21 years old or

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: 21. Yeah.

Javier: looks like he's sporty with a receding hairline.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, so everybody kind of, kind of treated him with a little bit of respect just because we thought he was older, But he brought us out the club one night and, and bought us all drinks. he was kind of the, the slick guy of the seventies. I mean, he had the, the satin print shirts and the, you know, unbuttoned two or three buttons. Uh, and, uh, always had a really snip, spiffy gold watch on, and, you know, we were just a bunch of college kids. He, he was definitely a slick guy and, uh, and, and he was, he was a womanizer and, and which is ultimately, I think what got him in trouble at our place, uh, was, was he, he messed with the wrong girl?

Javier: And that girl was Jan Jackson, the camp counselor in charge of horseback riding

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): And, and the other girls, you know, that were there kind of felt that way too, but he was very, I would, you know, very confident, very arrogant, you know, pretty cocky. so I remember him coming and Mr. Man, you know, he was super excited about him being there and, you know, and he was telling us that he was, you know, a airline pilot that was on furlough. he was there in his, you know, pilot's uniform, which, you know, being an airline pilot is not like being in the military. You don't wear your uniform, you know, when you're going somewhere, that's only for when you're going to work.

Javier: Well, that, that was my question for you is like, why would a pilot dress in uniform during his off time?

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): I was like, well, that's weird, you know, because my dad. know, was a pilot. when he came to camp Madison, he said that he worked for Delta, which is who my dad was a pilot for. So I mentioned to my dad, Hey, you know this, you know, we got this guy here. his name, you know, his name is Frank Anell and he says that he's a, you know, a pilot for Delta and he's on furlough. the red flag to him was is that Delta doesn't furlough. You know, there weren't any furloughed pilots then for Delta. and, and the other girls, you know, that were there kind of felt that way too, but he was very, I would, you know, very confident, very arrogant, you know, pretty cocky. so I remember him coming and Mr. Man, you know, he was super excited about him being there and, you know, and he was telling us that he was, you know, a airline pilot that was on furlough. he was there in his, you know, pilot's uniform, which, you know, being an airline pilot is not like being in the military. You don't wear your uniform, you know, when you're going somewhere, that's only for when you're going to work.

Javier: Well, that, that was my question for you is like, why would a pilot dress in uniform during his off time?

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): I was like, well, that's weird, you know, because my dad. know, was a pilot. when he came to camp Madison, he said that he worked for Delta, which is who my dad was a pilot for. So I mentioned to my dad, Hey, you know this, you know, we got this guy here. his name, you know, his name is Frank Anell and he says that he's a, you know, a pilot for Delta and he's on furlough. the red flag to him was is that Delta doesn't furlough. You know, there weren't any furloughed pilots then for Delta.

Javier: and she's right. Delta airlines did not force any pilots or crew to work less hours during this time period. Something about this pilot guy just didn't sit well with Jan Jackson.

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): And so then my dad started asking. Around. and nobody knew Frank well, nobody seemed to know him and he says he is on furlough, but. Uh, you know, that Delta didn't have any furloughed pilots. And so then I think as he would think about it, he would ask different people, you know, Hey, have you ever heard of this guy, you know, Frank ABNA

Javier: Jan Jackson's father was on a mission to figure this guy out.

Speaker: meanwhile, back at camp Madison, Frank Anell was settling in. It's been several weeks since his arrival. audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: But he brought us out the club one night and, and bought us all drinks. he was kind of the, the slick guy of the seventies. I mean, he had the, the satin print shirts and the, you know, unbuttoned two or three buttons. Uh, and, uh, always had a really snip, spiffy gold watch on, and, you know, we were just a bunch of college kids.

Javier: Frank figured out pretty quickly that Morris was a talented artist with impeccable craftmanship

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: And if I, if I recall, he came out and he went, talked to me about doing this card for him and told me he was the president of the Delta's employee, Delta employees club. And, uh, and so he wanted, they wanted this, they wanted a new ID and he wanted to look like this.

Javier: basically Ana wanted Morris to create him an airline ID card.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: And so he hands me. This ID that looked, you know, I didn't know what a Delta ID looked like. I oh, okay. No, I, can you do that? And I said, you know, can you do that? I'll pay you $125. And I said, sure. You know, I mean, that's probably twice what I made in the week at the camp. So I said, absolutely. so we went to, uh, an office supply place and, and bought all the supplies and went and bought a, uh, a model airplane somewhere. And so I would go out in this little cabin and I'd work on this cart so I give him this card. He goes, oh man, that's great. And so he laminates this thing and I mean, it looks like. Uh, looks like a, a Delta ID card, you know, I mean, it was, it was a, it was a great card. Had his picture on it, his name, all that sort of business.

Javier: Back on the other side of camp, Jan Jackson was putting all the pieces together.

Speaker: She saw right through the guy when no one else did the pilot uniform, the arrogance, the cheap smile, It was all an act. Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): And then my dad, you know, he called me and he said, that guy. It doesn't work for Delta. He said, I can't find anybody that knows him. And, you know, I've had some people check and he doesn't work for Delta. Well, so then back at the camp, uh, the girl started getting, you know, together and, Frank really needed, you know, needed. he needed to be cooled off a little bit. plan we had this speech. Made up, you know, that we had come up with and the last line of the speech was, you know, you think you're really hot and we think that you need to cool off. Well, when she said that I had a five gallon bucket of ice water and I stepped out of. A building. He was standing, you know, with his back to me and I stepped out of the building and I poured that five gallon bucket of ice water over his head.

Javier: Oh,

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): And uh, oh, he got so angry and, um, I mean, he did, he, there was no humor in that for him at all. And he had this comb over, he was balded about probably at least halfway, you know, back. And well, of course that, you know, messed all that up and he was all wet and he was embarrassed. He was mad and he had, something, I don't remember, it wasn't a knife, but it was like a box cutter or a, it was something, and he pulled that out and threatened me, you know? he was really angry and he, you know, he threatened me and kind of came at me with whatever that was he had in his hand.

Javier: but that was the first time that, uh, his mask was slipping. Right? Like this persona of this rich pilot, you know, he was kind of showing his true colors there a little bit.

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): But anyway, we never saw him again. He left that day and never came back.

Javier: And remember that fake Delta airlines ID card.

Speaker: Here's Morris fusel. Again, audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: we woke up one day and Frank was gone and, uh, and so was my ID card. the ID card ended up his undoing, cuz he tried to change it.

Javier: what was he trying to do? Change? Uh,

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: He was trying to get outta the country that that's when the FBI called me. So, so it is like, I don't know, September, October my house, the phone rings Morris. Yes. Morris Fuer. Uh, do you know, you know, Frank, Abigail? Yeah. I know Frank. well, well, you know, did you do an ID card for him? Sure. Did. well, why'd you do an ID card? So I tell him the story and he goes, uh, he goes, well, uh, well, we just caught him trying to leave the country with it. and he said he had tried to alter it and , and I said, well, he'd, he'd have made it if he wouldn't altered it. Cuz it looked exactly like an ID card. And I, my suspicion is what he tried to do. Was, take out off the lamination and change the name and, and it, it didn't go well for him.

Javier: Right, right. It kind of ruined it. No, that's that's crazy.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: And then that's how, that's how he ended up. Yeah. That's how he ended up getting caught. So, so I end up talking to Tom Madison about it and he said, well, you know, I think he stole a bunch of cameras from me and, and, and Tom was a big photographer. He had a bunch of used cameras. And so he sent, he sent, uh, Frank. To, uh, to Houston to sell him at a resale shop, a camera resale shop. And Frank comes back, says somebody had broken into the car and stolen him and, and you know, he'd never to be seen again. after, after he ditched Tom, I think kind of figured out that perhaps he had stolen him himself and pawned him.

Javier: Frank Anell was also accused of stealing money from the camp's account

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: He would drive this bus. And he would go to this filling station. Frank would come in, he'd fill the bus up and he drove around during the day and he'd come back and he'd hand him a receipt. Rip off a bunch of money and hand it to him So it took him a while before he caught up, caught up with that little ploy.

Javier: Morris fusel and Tom man. The camp organizer contacted local law enforcement and eventually took Ana to court.

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: we went to court and he and his girlfriend were there. Javier: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: They're at the hearing and at the, at the, the hearing before the justice of the piece. And so he orders him to pay me the $125 back.

Javier: Did he ever pay you? Did he ever repay

Speaker: you the 125 bucks? audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: his girlfriend did . She would, she would send me a check. I got four. It didn't quite make it to 125, but I got four checks once a month. I would get a $25 check for, for four months. And, and, uh, then she, they kind of ditched on the, on the fifth check, but, uh, I, I may be the only person that ever recovered any money from him that he owed anyone. Javier: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Javier: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705:

Javier: you are one of the only victims that he

Speaker: actually paid. Jennie

Javier: Well, you know, when I first heard the story about camp, camp Madison and all that, I always thought that, well, maybe the reason why he was there was because of the girls, you know, it was he, that was his vice, but, but you're saying that he was there with, uh, possibly his wife

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Yeah. Well, I think, I think there was a girlfriend or something that, that, that, that somebody. Somebody ended up, I wanna say meeting, maybe I, I don't, I don't completely recall, but when he came to the hearing, uh, it maybe a year later or less than a year later, there was a, a woman with him. And that was the girl that paid me. The, I, I didn't remember her name, Jennie

Javier: That's okay. Because I actually do know her name. In fact, I've been corresponding with Ana's ex-girlfriend for weeks now, She asked for me to keep her identity anonymous. this girlfriend who we're gonna call Mary lived with Frank Anell

Speaker: When he was paroled to Houston, Texas, between between October, 1973, to roughly October, 1975, when he was running the Grif that camp Madison author Allen Logan was able to identify Mary while interviewing several people associated with camp van. They all named her as they named her as being the girl who was seen with AIG. Now at camp Morris, fusel also pointed to her as a person who paid ABAG now's restitution. After Logan confirmed her identity, He was able to dig up some lawsuits with her name on it. There were two lawsuits, one from a department store called Montgomery ward and the other from spring bank, Both of these lawsuits happened to coincide with Frank Anell and Mary's breakup. We couldn't help, but wonder Were any of these debts related to Ana's scams? Talking to Mary would give us a window into a mysterious time period during a now's life. But unfortunately, Mary was very limited with her responses. However, she did confirm what we suspected in a text message to me. Mary told me, quote, any debt incurred. You can definitely attribute to Frank ABAG. Now. He was always a tremendous womanizer and personally, I don't think that a zebra changes its stripes regardless of what he says. so it appears that Frank Anell left Mary high and dry leaving her responsible for repaying all his debts. (music)

Javier: Every time I talk to someone who's encountered Frank a now I can't help, but imagine a Viking rating and pillaging every village he happens to land on. He doesn't seem to have a cooling off period. The moment he gets outta prison, he's immediately in search for a new conquestHere's Morris fusel, the art teacher at camp Madison.

Speaker: When he encountered you, he had just left the federal correctional institution in, in Virginia He was on parole. Yeah. audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: And, and, and I, and, and my guess is that that's why he kind of went to. A little obscure place.

Javier: yeah, very strange. But you know, it's funny after he got arrested for stealing from the camp. He was sitting in jail at a Galveston county jail. And, but that is supposedly the time when he was paroled to Houston and claiming to be working for the FBI. So

Speaker: audioMorrisFuselier11510056705: Oh, wow. it's a little, it's a little disappointing that you, you know, here you are thinking you, you know, you got, you got Rob by this really. You know, high class criminal turns out he's just, he's just a street punk,

Javier: And here's camp count and here's camp counselor jam Jackson. Again

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): he just acted like he thought that we all thought as much of him as he thought of himself and, you know, we just, you know, he, he wasn't, you know, He wasn't your pool guy, you know, that you, that, you know, you wanted to watch. And.

Javier: of the

Speaker: Jan Jackson+19403935834 on 2022-06-17 at 12.01 (Track 1): He definitely had the confidence, but nothing else . Javier: So I called up someone from Ana's past, who knows him best a man who traveled alongside Ana for years.

Javier: But you were saying, you were saying, that none of it is

Mark: None of it's true.

Speaker: None of it's true.

Javier: you know, it's safe to say that mark zer and Ana are on the out.

Mark: And, and

Speaker: before we get started, here is the D V D of the movie. And if you look closely, you'll notice it hasn't been opened. I've never seen the movie.

Javier: why is that? Why haven't you watched a movie? You can't bring yourself to watch it.

Mark: no, now it's been 40 years in time heals all wounds, but it was pretty horrific while it was unfolding. there was a threat on my life with regards to it.

Javier: Mark Zender claims Ana threatened his life, ruined his career and left him broke.

Mark: When I said, none of it's true is I, I used to travel with him.

Speaker: Uh, he, he would, he would do a hundred speeches, 200 speeches a year. And I would go with him to these speeches

Javier: Mark Zender became ABAG nail's booking agent in 1978 in between his appearance on to tell the truth.

Speaker: And right before he penned his autobiography catch, may can

Mark: I'll work with this man for years. I mean, I, 24 7, I swam in his pool. I knew his children. I, you know, we slept in the same hotel room because he just, you know, I knew this man

Javier: he was there when the myth started to he was there witnessing the myth, starting to take shape. take for instance, the infamous hooker story.

Speaker: hooker story

Frank Abagnale: I pulled up at the mayor's home in the rolls. Royce And then all of a sudden I saw a beautiful young lady, about 24 years old sitting up at the bar.

Speaker: Absolutely gorgeous. she was very impressed with who I was and we started talking So she said, why don't you make me an offer?

Mark: I remember having lunch with him once and we spoke to a lot of bankers associations and a banker told that story as a joke. I mean, it was a joke. Right. And then the next day it's worked its way into Frank's presentation

Javier: And the joke is the joke is that he forged to check, to pay the prostitute. Right.

Frank Abagnale: So Cheryl gave me 400 change. We both got screwed that night now. Thank, uh,

Mark: So, well, the, the joke is they both got screwed, Right.

Speaker: there's the punch.

Javier: right.

Speaker: Frank Abagnale:

Mark: And, and so I thought, okay, he's added this just as some, some relief to the audience, you know? And, and, and so I didn't really think that much of it, even though I knew I had heard the joke the day before.

Javier: even though you're seeing some of these things happen before your very eyes, I mean, you were there when the joke happened, you were there when that joke manifested itself and became part of his lore, you know, like

Speaker: on stage, he's telling people like this actually happened to him and all the, while you're still mesmerized by this guy, like, right. Like it's not in your world. This can't possibly be a lie right. At the time.

Mark: Well, remember I was, I was fresh outta college. I went to, a, a conference and heard him speak and I thought, oh, this would be a great speaker.

Javier: It was perfect. ABAG now needed help finding new speaking gigs and zer was looking for a new talent to represent

Mark: It was real easy for me to sell him. I mean, not, it was just, it was a great story. It had a great moral,

Speaker: don't try to be someone you're not, I could have been any of these people if I had stayed in school, but I didn't stay in school. So it had a good story

Javier: mark Zender booked Ana oncologist throughout the country. Ana was his top act wherever he went Zender would go along with him.

Mark: And yes, we would, we would bunk together. We would, we'd been in the hotel room together

Javier: he

Speaker: had all this money and he would insist that you would share a room, even though he was perfectly capable of getting his own room.

Mark: yeah, without question.

Speaker: I think the story was nothing more and, and I say this kind of tongue and cheek, but it's kind of true. Motive (women)

Mark: It, it, it was, it was for him to, to define female companionship, let me put it that way. And, uh, and he, had a libido that just wouldn't stop

Javier: yeah. He said that women were, was his vice.

Mark: I remember once we got back to his hotel room and there was a young girl sitting by the door.

Speaker: and he just went Z, you know, and he used to come me Z there's Z, which meant go to the lobby. And then, and then, he, and then an hour and a half later, he came down and then he'd pick up another girl and back up to the room. I'm still in the lobby. I'm not making this up. I'm not making this up. We get back to the hotel room. It's midnight now. and hires a prostitute and the same thing, you know, it's like how how so?

Javier: he, he,

Mark: to, to meet girls.

Speaker: Victimless crimes Javier: mark Zender claims that he had no idea. Ana was peddling lies during his speaking engagements. He was just happy that he had a speaker. He can book, but like everyone else who had the misfortune of having ABAG now in their.

Javier: Mark Zender says he was ripped off.

Speaker: He positions himself as, Hey, this was a victimless crime. No one ever got hurt. I never went after mom and pop places.

Mark: Not true.

Speaker: Javier:

Mark: well, you know, me, you know, uh, he still owes me a lot of money. Right. And, and he threatened me

Javier: Abignail challenged mark Zender to book him for 12 months, straights that's 50 speaking gigs. And if he did that, Ana would pay him a bonus of $5,000 and that was a lot of money back then. He must have figured that was an impossible goal.

Speaker: And you did it, you

Mark: I did it. I did it

Javier: and then after the year, I think you, you went back to him and you asked him for your bonus and

Speaker: what did he say?

Mark: he, he said, well, I'm not exactly sure what he said in word for word, but it was basically, I'm not paying you

Speaker: and so he backed out on the deal and we had in contract, but what had happened, he said, well, you didn't get me $2,000 per speech. There were a number of speeches that were only $1,500. So that broke the deal. And it was like, well, you agreed to them. And so I came in the office the next day and that he had written a note on my desk that he didn't wanna work with me anymore. And that, uh, and that we were done. And then he Did pay me the $5,000 bonus, but that was, that was the end of our relationship. Because, because the way I just told you it unfolded, it was very polite. Javier:

Mark: words were shared

Javier: Well, I couldn't imagine

Mark: I was a kid,

Javier: you called him a con man. Right? How did

Mark: man. Right? Call him MCC conman. I call him MCC conman.

Javier: he take that? By the

Mark: well, not that was, that was the final nail in the coffin.

Javier: Zender ended up moving on with his career and found other speakers and acts to represent, but that wasn't the end of Frank a now.

Speaker: Did you think that was gonna be the last time you were gonna see him

Mark: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

Javier: Was it the last time you ever saw him

Mark: well, no, no, no, no. And, and I thought it was the last time,

Javier: when did, Frank sneak his way back

Speaker: into your

Mark: then all of a sudden, there's a knock at the door I opened the door well, who it, right. Frank. And so what had happened is I had booked him 50 times and he said, I don't need you. I can do this myself

Javier: The truth is that Abignail was having trouble booking his own college speaking gigs.

Speaker: But the college market, that's where all the girls were. Right.

Mark: Yeah, exactly. What was the deciding factor is when I was working with him before I did not have an exclusive contract.

Speaker: So when he knocks on the door a year later, he says, okay, I'll give you an exclusive contract. And so that's how the second version, uh, unfolds. Javier: this whole time that you're, you're, you're going to these speaking engagements with him and he's has all these girls, you had no idea that he was supposedly married and had kids,

Mark: oh, no, I had had no idea.

Javier: Abignail met his current wife right after he fled camp man his girlfriend married to pay off all his debts. But according to zer ABAG now kept his personal life secret.

Mark: Now in reality, when I first started working with him I did not know. and there was one time I was traveling with him and, and he pulled out a picture of, of, of two young boys and that's kinda like, and he said, these are my children and the whole thing, you know, and, and he says, I'm married.

Speaker: and then he made me promise not to say anything. And so it was uncomfortable, but again, I was booking him as a speaker and what he did in his personal life, you know, that was his choice.

Javier: Sure. Yeah. But it, but it's just another signal that, that was there

Speaker: that you're like, you know, you missed just like everybody else because you're, you're wrapped up in, in his story, Mark Zender says he got screwed by. Anell not just once, but twice the last time nearly left. Zender living on the streets. let me explain mark zer landed his top talent at a speaking slot. Mark. Zender applied for his talent to speak at the N ACA convention, which is the super bowl of conventions for the college speaking circuit, this was a big deal and it was gonna cost him a lot of money to get.

Mark: So applying to get a talent at this conference is very expensive. So you're very judicious on how many you can apply.

Javier: He submitted three of his top talent.

Speaker: Mark: Right. Hoping that one comes through. I get the letter. Congratulations, Mark Alexander. We have chosen all three of your, of your

Javier: Oh,

Mark: all three, all three, but we don't want Frank on the speaker stage. We want Frank to be the keynote after dinner speaker at the opening ceremony, not 20 minutes, the entire 60 minutes in front of all 3000 students.

Speaker: I'm gonna make a fortune in three days, right? I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna book these, this talent that I'm gonna fill their calendars. I mean, it's all right there. So it's the day before, I've got television sets with videos, I've got audio. So you can listen to his speech. I've got full page ads in, in the magazine. We we've gone all in I've borrowed money from the bank. , I've gone all in. So I'm setting up and the students are starting to arrive. And these kids walk up to my booth And go, Hey, you know, where's Frank. I went, you know, he'll be here tomorrow. I'm not, you know, I'm have you heard hurt, hurt, heard what? Oh, nothing. No, no, no, no, no, no. heard what says, oh, we're students that I forgot the name of the university and we're in the criminology department. And Frank came and spoke at our school, the one school he booked the year before he came and spoke at our school. And, uh, we went to our professor saying, Hey, if we go listen to this guy speak, can we get extra credit? And the professor said, no, but do some research on the guy afterwards and, turn in the paper and then I'll consider it. And so these are the kids in the criminology department that did the research to discover that he was a fraud. right.

Javier: And this is like really the first time it's

Mark: Yeah, this is, yeah, this is, this is now happening. It is 24 hours before this conference starts.

Speaker: Right. I've got so much invested in this. Javier:

Mark: So I go to the payphone, which is what we had back then, you know, and I'm calling Frank. Every every five minutes, every time I'm just calling and he won't, he won't answer, he won't answer. He won't answer.

Speaker: And I wasn't sure who was telling the truth. I wasn't sure if it was the kids or if it was Frank, I still wasn't. Sure. And so he finally picks up You know, once again, this was 40 years ago, but I remember in detail when my son was born.

Javier: your talent, you know? Sure.

Speaker: Sure.

Mark: I remember in detail word for word, this conversation with Frank, this, this is this, this is not a false memory.

Speaker: So he picks up and I say, I know. And he says, I know, you know, right. That's when I finally realized when I, the kids are telling the truth, right. And then he says to me, it'll take, it'll just take me $10,000 for me to solve my problem. Click was I just threatened

Javier: mark. Zender interpreted this as a death threat, $10,000 to hire a Hitman and take care of the problem. eh, I don't know how serious this threat was, but it doesn't matter because that's the way mark Zender perceived it.

Speaker: suddenly word got out that Ana pulled out of the event and then his, and then Zander's other two acts Desi decided to pull out two

Mark: He says to me, mark, not a good time to be working with yet. He's a NoShow

Javier: Oh my God. This is like the day before the

Mark: this is the day before And the comics. the comp same thing. I don't think it's a good time to be associated with you. They're a nohow. So a few hours earlier, I was on top of the world. and now, boom, cause I've spent so much money.

Javier: Oh, I can't

Mark: Oh God. It's of course not.

Speaker: Rape

Javier: But that wasn't your last brush in with, Frank AGA, right?

Mark: No, no.

Javier: decades after Frank Ana walked out of the NACA conference and nearly left cinder broke, they happened to meet again, but this time it's by chance.

Mark: So all of a sudden I'm at this airport and I hear Z and that's what he used to call me.

Speaker: Right. And I look around and there he is. Right. I often wondered what I would do. You know, when, when I, when I saw him and he's got his hands stretched out, you know, walking towards me, kinda like nothing ever happened and we shake hands. And so we start talking and then you ask about Fran.

Javier: Fran is mark Cinder's ex-wife. She was around during the time that Zender represented Avi. Now, mark Zender recalls a day when Fran was alone with Avi. he told me that something happened that day. she wouldn't say what, but Fran was never the same again.

Mark: And when, when we went through discovery with our divorce, Fran mentions that she'd been raped, you know, and, and, uh, but doesn't mention who or what.

Javier: Mark says that he's had years to put the pieces together was Abignail the man that Fran mentioned in the court records. He couldn't shake it.

Speaker: That's why he felt sick to his stomach. When Frank Cigna approached him years later at that airport.

Mark: Frank says, Hey, you know how Fran do it? Well, Frank, that, that didn't work out said, I always meant to apologize for that. for what? I didn't say it, but apologize for what? So I don't know. Fran Fran refused to speak We don't talk. I have no idea what happened, but so Frank not only ruined me financially, but he did the number on me personally as well. So at the beginning, when you said, he said that he's never heard anybody.

Speaker: Nah, it's bullshit.