The Stalker part 2

Javier: A quick word before we begin today's. This is part two of a multi-part series, so it may make more sense to start with part one. Also, this episode contains adult language and subjects that are not suitable for children or listening out loud at work.

Speaker: You might get some strange looks. Okay, let's start to show (music) Previously on PRETEND... Caludia and David Rodriguez started getting harassing instangram and text messages from a person cliaming to be their daughter's doctor's husband. Yes, the doctor's husband. A man, these people claim they've never met. The messages started off benign and quickly turned sadistic. Tanya and Rick: this guy put a threat out to our home and he said, I'm in your neighborhood and I'm going to kill your family. I'm going to kill you. The cyber stalking started in January of 2019 and is still going on today. Every time the stalker sent a threatening message, the Rodriguez family called the police. Eventually, the police decided to do a stake out to see if they can figure out who was sending these messages. After the police started their investigation, the stalking just stopped. Almost 3 months went by and not a single message was recieved. But then... So January 9th of last year, I get a bang bang bang on our front door. So I'm already paranoid as it is. I don't, I was scared, you know, especially after what we've been through. So I didn't answer. I just waited for the gentleman to walk away. And I pulled the business card out of our screen door and it was the detective. So I called Rick at work and I said, the detectives showed up and maybe he has an answer for us. So I called him from, from my, my route, my mail route. And I, I, I told him, I said, yeah, my wife said that you were above the house. And he said, yes, I did the, uh, subpoenas of Instagram and it turns out everything came from your house. And I said, that's impossible. And he says, Nope, everything, everything came from your house. Police subpeoned Instagram to identify who created these threatening messages. There were 11 accounts with juvinile user names such as GraceGressmanVaginaLove. Instagram provided the police withe IP addresses used to create the accounts. All the accounts except for two were created POINTED to the same person. The police also subpeoned COX communication, the internet service provider, and came back with the same results. All messages were sent from the same IP address. Instangram and Cox communication both confirmed it was from Caludia Rodriguez account. And I said, well, that he must have hacked into our system. You know, he must have hacked into our internet to make that happen. (music) Tanya and Rick: Is it even possible for a hacker to make it look like the messages were coming from inside their house? We're going to get into the tech of it all in a future episode. But for now, just know that the police got a search warrant for Cox Communication and Instagram to obtain information pertaining to the IP address associated with these messages. And the IP address came back under Claudia's name. Now, what's an IP address? An IP address is a series of number that identifies a phone or computer on a network. Think of it this way, one of your friends wants to meet you at your house, but they don't where you live. You give him your home address, let's say 123 Main Street, Anytown, USA. Now your friend has the information he needs to find you. It's the same concept with IP addresses on the internet. Every network is assigned an address. And in the case of the cyber stalk, the police officer said that address was point back to Claudia and David's house. Insane, right? This is not your typical cyberstalking scenario. Typically, it's a disgruntled employee, and ex-boyfriend, an obsessive friend. Some cyberstalkers even cross the line into the physical realm and can inflict real harm. Often times, the victim has an idea who the stalker is. But not this case. This case remains a mystery to me. Some days, I'm confident I know who the perprtartor is. Then something new happens and everything unravels. In today's episode, Caludia and David take matters into their own hands. There's a confrontation with the alleged stalker and things don't go as planned. I'm Javier Leiva and this is PRETEND. Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. I did the, uh, subpoenas of Instagram and it turns out everything came from your house. And I said, that's impossible. And he says, Nope, everything, everything came from your house. And he was, he was just adamant and it was a very short conversation. And he said, well, I can, if you want, I can look at your phones and this and that. And I knew that wasn't gonna fly with Tanya, cause we don't want to give the police custody of our phones. And then we don't know when we're going to get back. If we're going to get them back, does it make sense to give them our devices? Because number one, everything that they needed to see was on Instagram. Everything they need to see is on Instagram. And secondly, we had gotten new devices in December, so there's nothing on a brand new device that you're going to get.

Javier: This is not a good look. First the police finds out that all these messages are originating from inside their own house. And now, the cops are asking for their phones, computers and tablets and Claudia and David are refusing. Did you give the cops your log-in credentials and all that so they could see your

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Instagram peanut it, so they, they, they looked. They, they, I apparently they looked, I don't but it sounds like the detectives, from what you're telling me were taking you seriously, for the most part, Not really, no. They would just come out to the house and take a report. We're just going to take a report, take a report, take her. Tanya and Rick: But in my opinion, the police went above and beyond when you consider most stalking cases. It's not that police don't take stalking victims seriously. it's just that most police departments don't have the manpower or resources to chase down a stalker. Stalking, especially cyber stalking, is a difficult crime to investigate and prosecute. Cyberstalking is outlawed in the state where the Rodriguez family lives. However, the penalties for cyber stalking can range from a year to 3 years in prison. And trying to get a conviction can be tricky because there's usually very little evidence. In order to find evidence, police have to get a court ordered warrant to search the suspects devices, and then how do you get around the alibi. Maybe a roommate or someone else in the house has access to your computer without your knowledge. You can see how this could be troublesome. So the fact that the cops even bothered doing a 6 hour stake out and requested a search warrant from instagram and cox communication is above and beyond what most law enforcement agencies would do. But Claudia and David are not satisfied. And then they would say things like, well, why don't you change your number? You're part of the problem.

Javier: Why didn't you change your name?

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Because, okay. I'll tell you because my, my kids see a lot of different providers. And so I thought it would be such a hassle to have to change my number that I've had for over 20 years. And then I felt also it's my right to keep my number. It's my right. So eventually, we did change our numbers, but I just felt forced into doing it because he wouldn't stop.

Javier: The police involvement in this case wrapped after court ordered subpeonas showed that the harassing messages were originating from inside Claudia and David's own home.

Speaker: Now that the cops were out of the way, the stalker returned and decided to amp things up. A few weeks after police concluded their investigation, Claudia and David got a text from a man that said, "Hey this is Zach from OKCupid. You told me to text you." Claudia responded and told him she's not on OKCupid. Then another text came through in response from a OKCupid ad. Then another. And another. And these are real people. I was able to plug in their phone numbers and do a reverse search. There were 10 text messages total. And one night we even got someone show up at our home at 10 30 at night expecting a hookup. And when he found out that he wasn't going to get a hookup, he got extremely mad and that's dangerous,

Javier: Around this same time period, dr. Gressman contacted police and alerted them of some new fake accounts created using her and her husbands name. The instagram accounts is one of the accounts associated with Claudia and David's IP Address.

Speaker: Meanwhile, Claudia and David called the police because they continue to receive threatening messages from a handful of phone numbers. The messages read: "if i could bomb the hospital, then yeah would i" " Grace. i hope she gets raped" "i hope she burns in the desert." "i want to blow her brains out" "i want to take a pistol to her throat. bang bang" "i want to take a machete to her head." "and a pistol to her throat." "duct tape around her mouth. and burn her" "... to scrap her spine with my machete, blow her head with my pistol, duct tape her mouth, take off her clothes, have some bang bang time with her, and then throw her body in the lake. then she's history to me." The stalker even started messaging Chelsea, and former patient of Dr. Gressman. he did some things to my daughter that were unforgivable. He reached out to my daughter, who's disabled. And, he told her that, um, she's retarded and that she's not worth the sperm that it took to create her and that she needed to kill herself. And I can't forgive him for that. the police accused me of doing that, that I, that I'm the one that wrote my kids. And he did it on a couple of different occasions where he would message her and talk to her about her disability and, and too bad doctor, you know what, won't be your doctor anymore. Tanya and Rick: And, and she actually, we responded in more of an adult way than, than he did, she responded like, I love my parents and I don't want you to talk about them like that. Or me, she responded like in a very adult way. And I was like, so proud of

Javier: her.

Speaker: Police were able to trace the numbers to a company called Bandwidth. Bandwidth is a company that sells VOICE over IP numbers. The way it works is that Bandwidth sells the numbers to companies, and those companies then sell that number to another company life Google voice, pinger, ringer central, etc . Trying to trace those numbers back to the user can be tricky and would involved cooperation from multiple companies. The harassment continued. Three seperate pizzas totalling more than $200 were delivered to the Rodriguez's home. Tanya and Rick: So yeah, he used our numbers, to order food and have it delivered to our home and it wasn't paid for, and then it would have the name of the doctor on the receipt and like mocking. the police said I did that, that I, the I'm the one that did that. Why would I do that?

Javier: The names on these pizzas were "Gracie fremstad" "Grace Gressman Fremsted" "Grace Fremsted" all variations of the doctor's name and the security captain.

Speaker: Let's get our barrings straight. The stalking started the summer of 2019. The police stakeout took place in the fall of 2019. In just a few months, the Rodriguez family went from being victims to suspects in their own harassment case. So in the spring of 2020, they decided to take matters into their own hands. We'll continue the story after the break. What would you do if you're getting threatening messages and the police think you're doing it to yourself? Claudia and David felt they had to do something. Not only to stop the harrassment but to clear their name. So they hired a private investigator. our a private investigator that we work with. she initially pinned it. we told her that it was a security guard. She said, it's not the security guard. I think it's the husband. And I was like, what? Tanya and Rick: She, she guessed it right off the bat. She goes, I, I know, I know it's him. I know it's the husband. Somehow , the stalker seemed to know about Claudia and David's private investigator named Mary. In fact, he would reference her height in some of the messages. he said, send your midget over. the midget is our private investigator. She's like four, 10. So I thought, okay, fine. I'll call your bluff. So I call her and I said, would you do this job tonight? And she said, yes. So I could tell that she was nervous. Tanya and Rick: She she's a tough broad, she's a tough lady. And she, she seemed kind of nervous and we met up about three blocks away from this doctor's home. she said, I'm psyching myself up. It was already dark. It was dark. she says, if I'm not back within an hour, please call the police. So about 20 minutes later, she came back visibly shaken. She said his behavior is odd. he was looking all around instead of looking right at me. When we, when we were talking, she, she didn't talk about us or the situation. She, she made up a story as to why she was there. She said his behavior is very odd. So I called up Claudia and David's private investigator Mary to get her take on all of this.

Javier: Hi, Mary, my name is Javier Leyva. I was told to call youyes, you're, I'm more than happy to talk with you about it. It's a very strange

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): situation.

Javier: It really is. I have. Comb through a lot of the text messages, the police reports and a lot of the timeline that they built,to chronologically, tell their story.

Speaker: And there were some interesting things happening, especially when you got involved. Cause I know that you've tried to approach the family, Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): Yes. Yes. I have, I said surveillance, outside of the house one day. I wanted to do. Get a photograph of him because we had been doing, I was doing some surveillance at the Fernandez residence the night before. And a gentleman rode past us on a bicycle then the other gem I went there, Tanya told me that, he. I asked for, to have her send me.when he came to the door and array age, just very angry and he had a golf club and sand and he poked me in the chest with it and, chased me, away. I ran out to my car. And, got in it and locked it. when you approached him and I go and you walked up to his door, did you tell him who you were and why you were there or did He already He already knew he came to the door this way. I do not think that, anyone in their right mind would answer a door like that but it was very strange with the city at desk for me to come.

Javier: what kind of things were it? Was he saying exactly?

Speaker: he won get, get out of here, stop harassing us. We just want this to be over. You guys are crazy. just leave us alone and w we don't want anything to do with any of this anymore, and, like the is if the had been, harassing him or something, As if, they were doing to him what he was doing to them, Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): he looked like a madman, as I recall, he just, it was something like, what's the matter with you people. Why can't you leave us alone? what else did he say? it was something about, we're not going to put up with this any longer, if it doesn't stop, we're going to do something about it and you're going to be sorry and when he poked me with the golf club, wanted me to press charges and I felt that was for one thing, inserting myself too much into the investigation. it's not advisable. And, if it had been anyone else, I wouldn't, I would never charge someone just because they had poked me with a golf club.

Javier: because it didn't really hurt you, But, it was definitely a threatening move.

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): Yeah, it was an, a, an aggressive move and threatening, but, it didn't hurt me Claudia and David claim that 45 minutes after Mary visited the Gressman's house, they recieved a text message from the stalker. The stalker asked why did they send that midget to his house? He mentioned hitting the private investigator with with a golf club. and what's your take on this situation? What do you think? I know, that they were your clients, but do you feel like you believed their side of the story? I do. they're very, normal noun tours, people, Very nice people. I even fathom why they would do such a thing. I can't picture them even with such a language coming out of their mouth. I can't even say. Even imagine them knowing some of those things that, you know, Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): but when I spoke to the detective, he told me that he felt that it was coming from their house.And I said, okay, why would they do such a thing? And he simply said, I stopped asking why years ago.

Javier: So he definitely did not buy their side of the story.

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): No, not at all. I think that, that, Dr. had charmed him. That was the feeling I got. he wanted it to be,solved and easy cut and dry matter.

Javier: th that, and I think that's what bothers me about this case just reading the police report, it doesn't look good for Tanya and Rick. It almost makes it sound Like they're making this whole thing.

Speaker: Yeah, it does. But, I don't know. I've talked with Tonya on the phone many times for,for hours and she. He has a very busy life and I can't see her having a disorder like that, where she needs a tension. it just, it doesn't compute when I look at her and I think about that, what they're saying it doesn't add up to me

Javier: From your investigation though? what kind of, new evidence were you able to find that convinced you one way or the other.

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): I could not come up with any evidence that we could use that would, be suitable in court or anywhere. To say that, unequivocally it was we went to a forensic, company that did, work with computers and phones and they couldn't get anywhere because of these numbers he had used. I just couldn't help, but see and feel that these people were not doing this. And even though I could need to come up with any evidence that we could use, I'm in you, you've got to have hard and fast, stuff there too, to take into court. And there's just wasn't anything.

Javier: What do you think his motivation is?

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): And that's a hard one, except that I think that he's jealous of his wife. I think that he feels like, oh, I don't know, a. Just a clown in the back around. she may, he's mentioned she's having an affair and she may well be, I don't know, but I think that he's very insecure in his relationship with his wife. She obviously, wears the pants financially. And I don't know, too, as far as I'm concerned, the person who controls the finances control the relationship, I think. But,and so I think a lot of it has to do with that. I think that, I don't know. I don't know. It's all, it's everything I could tell you is conjecture, Exactly. Not based on fact. yeah. it's not, but he's very insecure with that, I think. And I think he's a little bit off balanced to begin with. He just, I remember when I, the first time I saw his photograph, I just got a weird feeling. th there was something about the look in his eyes. I don't know. He just, it was a strange feeling that this guy's not quite right, but. that's just me, I don't know if he was hoping that, He would be caught and it would adversely affect his wife or if he was trying to be her Knight in shining armor or something like that. It's a very juvenile sort of mind frame, I think that he's operating with. But, I, from the texts that he sends, he certainly doesn't seem to be, someone who has a grip on reality

Javier: And you say this again as conjecture, because you weren't able to conclusively link the to the SRE, but you feel like they're telling you the truth. I feel that way too. When I talk to them, they seem like very, just very normal people,

Speaker: Marri Bernier on 2021-08-20 at 12.15 (Track 1): That they are just there, your everyday middle class working people. nothing extraordinary about the middle and they've maybe been dealt, their sheriff troubles, having kids that, a lot 13 disabled child and. Another suffered from depression and all that. But, I think most families have something, When we come back, Claudia and David ask the stalker to meet in person. I said, you know what? You're all talk. I said, why don't you meet us in person? And he said, I'm okay. Tanya and Rick: That's after the break. Claudia and Rick have tried everything to make this stalker stop harassing them. They've tried everything, except for one thing.... I said, you know what? You're all talk. I said, why don't you meet us in person? And he said, I'm okay. And he gives me the address. And I said, I am not going into your house. And I said, let's meet in a public place. And I mentioned a restaurant that was nearby and he said, oh, I'll bring wifi and we can have dinner and you can buy it. And I said, no, no, absolutely not. So it just went back and forth like this. And I said, you know, why, why

Javier: would you want to meet him in real life? Um,

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: I don't know. I just felt like this was like our final straw where like our, our, uh, private investigator told us, you know, he's, he's probably a real coward. And if, and if you notice his wife is the one that did all the talking with the police. He didn't say anything. And so w w that was just our final straw. And we were like, you know what? We've never actually seen him or spoke to him. Let's call him, let's get him, let's get them out in public. Let's meet this guy face to face and get it over with, whatever conversation we need to have with them. Let's let's get it done. By the way, this is a terrible idea. If you're ever in this position, never, never engage with a stalker. Nothing good will ever come of it. Fortunately, Caludia and David never went through with the meeting. The threatening messages continued. but this time, they were directed at David who is a postal worker. he, this idiot texted me and said, I'm watching your husband on his mail route and I'm going to kill him after he's done. So I texted Rick and I said, you better watch your back. Tanya and Rick: And then Rick started getting messages about what are you doing, sitting in your truck? You coward. Tanya told me what, what he, what he was saying in his messages. I parked on a, on a public street there and I texted I called my station manager and I said, you know what? I'm being, I'm getting death threats on my route. And, and I don't feel safe out here. And I told her, I said, my actual words were, I feel like a sitting duck. And she goes, well, I don't, I don't want you to feel, feel that way. Why don't you come in from, from your route and we'll break it up and give it to other carriers. And so during that conversation with her, I was parked. And after that conversation, I got, I got a text myself saying, why are you just sitting in your truck? You coward, I went to the station, they called, they called the police and, and, and also the postal inspector. And I, when I left the station, I was keeping my eyes out for anything, anything unusual. And I saw black Dodge sports car park underneath the shade tree, you know, and it was right outside the postal code. Tanya and Rick: And I thought, wow, that's that people don't usually park there. I called 9 1 1. I said, you know what, I've gotten death threats today. And something very suspicious is going on at work. There's a couple of guys parked in a black sports car right outside the gate. I went home after that and, and the cop, they eventually told me that they were just day workers day workers?

Javier: just like landscape, landscape

Speaker: workers Tanya and Rick: or something

Javier: like that.

Speaker: This obviously spooked Claudia and David because the stalker could be following him during his mail route.beginning of June of last year, I want to say it was beginning of June in the may. Tanya and Rick: We did hire an attorney and this attorney sent a cease and desist letter to him.the day that it was emailed. I got a message that said, I got your letter from your gay lawyer and I can do whatever the hell I want. The stalker continued sending pizzas to their home. we got the postal inspector involved, he wasted seven months of our time. The postal inspector by the way is the law enforcement arm of the United States Postal Service. They are federally sworn officers who carry guns, make arrests, and serve federal search warrants. They're basically the FBI for the postal system. Their job, among other things, is to investigate and prevent instances of violence against their employees. so when David started getting harrassed during his mail route, he made sure to get them involved. Here's a call David recorded with the postal inspector. How are you doing? I'm doing okay. I just wanted to give you an update on Sunday. My, my, my wife's got a message on her phone David starts telling the inspector about all the harassing messages and about Mary, the private investigator's visit with the gressmans. and before she knew it, he came out of the door, wielding a golf club and assaulted her with it. And then she took off the money. He comes up and when he comes out of the door with a golf club in his hand and strikes her with it, pokes her in the chest with it. The postal inspector let David finish. I called nine 11 at that time. And 9 1, 1 operator asked, is this about And I said, yes, nobody ever showed up. They're tired of hearing about it. they don't want to hear it. They don't want to hear from us anymore. They've they've, they've had it too. They've closed the case. David is desperate and out of options. He's feels like he's beeing watched at work and at home. cause you hacked my, my home, my Cox security internet system. And he was able to watch me come and go from work. That's how I knows my schedule and at your house. Yes. And that's how he knows my schedule. That's how I know when I was at work and all that. We've disabled the camera. So he can't spy on us anymore So these are again, threats that you are not at work, that we all will take that into alcohol. So there's a different now. So now we're, I'm just talking about this. I'm not talking about your, what happened with your wife and, or your. the private investigator that needs to be followed up with a local place The postal inspector only wants to talk about the threats that have happened while David was on duty. if any of these things happened while you're on the route, right, you need to report that to the proper, which is your supervisor will in turn contact. The postal inspector did an investigation. They even went over to the Gressman's house and spoke with John Gressman, the alledged stalker. They agree with the police departments conclusion that the stalking is coming from someone inside the rodriguezs house. After the postal inspectors visit to the Gressman's house, David says they receieved messages form the stalker threatening the postal inspector's life. You do not care whether inspector his life was through. But what I talked to inspector uh, I haven't heard from that, but if you want to present them to look into it, I sent it to you. Okay. I would think that's a pretty good crime too Claudia and David were getting nowhere. The cops closed the case. The postal inspector didn't seem to take the case seriously. Where do they go from here? he accused our oldest daughter, who has nothing to do with it.

Javier: So the postal inspector also accused her daughter of this, our

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: oldest Claudia and Rick have five children. Chelsea, age 25 was Dr. Gressman's patient. But we're talking about their other daugther who we're calling Logan. She's 30 years old and still living with their parents. So I, I drove my daughter down, down to the postal inspector office. And, and they basically interrogated her. She came out in tears saying that, you know, they, they take, they, they, they, uh, they look at our phone. So they were looking at apps that she had downloaded and taken off her phone years ago. And she told them I have nothing to do with this. And anyway, she was during the time when this activity was going, she, she has a, she has a depression problem and has attempted suicide twice. And she was in a mental health facility. At a time when all this stuff was going on, she had no phone, no, no way of no access to the internet, you know, and, and this was going on. So we're trying to tell him, there's no way it's her, because she was, I told the postal inspector, there's no way that she is doing it because you can, you can call this facility and verify that she was there during this timeline According to Caludia and David, this is a solid alibi. There's no way Logan could be sending these messages, because these messages were coming through while she was institutionalized in a this mental health facility. Caludia and David are 100%certain that the staler is dr. gressman's husband John Gressman. I can't help, but wonder like what if it wasn't him? What if it's somebody else? How confident are you that it's your doctor's husband? Tanya and Rick: When the attorney sent the letter. Sent the cease and desist. And he responded to that. That was like the, the telling moment, you know, it's obvious that this is him.

Javier: Claudia and David have zero doubt in their minds that John Gressman is the man behind the threatening messages. They tried resolving this with the police. Not only did the investigation go nowhere, but they were ultimately named resposible for stalking themselves. Then they tried contactin ghte postal inspector for help, but that didn't go far becasue the postal inspector agreed with the police investigation. The Rodriguezes even tried hiring their own private investigator. But that also failed to develop new evidence. There was only one last thing for them to do. They put their house of 20 years for sale. The same house they raised their 5 children in.

Speaker: And it worked. Moving stopped the calls, the messages. Finally, the Rodriguez family lived in peace. if I were a stalker, right, my victim's move. I'm going to go. Follow them wherever they normally go. another doctor that I know they visit, or your job, you know, meet you at the post office or wherever your station is, and then follow you home. Are you worried about that kind of stuff or did you just completely move to a Tanya and Rick: home? We're in a completely different area And so now you've moved, you changed your number and now I'm going to circle back to the first thing I asked her, which was what, why not just let this be you, you should be, you know, things are calm. Why agitate the situation? I'm just worried that if he, he gets away, if he keeps on getting away with it, there's going to be other, other people out there that are going to be, tormented as well. And it's just, it's, it's sad because if you don't have, I mean, we fought it to the end and we thought we were going to get, get somewhere with it, but there's going to be other people that that will not, will not go as well. Well, and also too, like if this medical professional has anything to do with this, which I really feel like she. Possibility. She really, her license should be in question, you know, she's supposed to protect and look out for the best interest of her patients and families. that's not what happened. And this doctor does delicate surgeries on pediatric patients. I think that. She needs to answer to the medical board and, and get to the bottom of this, because really the, our motive in the beginning of telling her wasn't a stirrup trouble, it was to help. It was to help her. And it's caused so much, torment in our, in our lives. And it's unnecessary, unnecessary. you asked me how, you know, why are we, why we brought this this far? I'm I, I fear that, that he has wicked thoughts in his head and that one day he might carry it out and we might see on the news. That she was murdered or something he's threatened to blow up the hospital. Tanya and Rick: And I, uh,

Javier: it's true. Some of these fantasies could manifest into something real, right.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: So that's what, I'm what I'm hearing. And if that happens, I'm going to go straight to the reporters and say, Hey, this is what we went through with this guy. And we got no response from law.

Javier: I just, I looked her up and she is not what I expected her to look like.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: they look

Javier: like a good looking couple, not who you would expect to be a

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: stalker. Right. There's a weird picture of him on Facebook where he looks very creepy.

Javier: She seems very young. I mean, she's probably what in her thirties, maybe, right? I mean, these people don't seem.

Speaker: Like, I mean, a doctor, why would a doctor get involved in this? But see, Tanya and Rick: but see, that's the attitude that the cops had. They said, this is a doctor. You guys are just the lower class working class people, but this has an elevated doctor with credentials. And so it has to be you guys because you're in a lower income bracket and you know, it's just supported their narrative.you talk about it almost as if it's over, is it over? I, like I said earlier, I would like to say that it's over, but I think that we slowed him down. It kind of feels like it's over. Cause we love our, our new neighborhood. It's nice and quiet, but we were still very careful. I'm always watching my back.

Javier: So what would happen if I approached this doctor what kind of reaction would I get from

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: them? I think it would cause a fire storm, like no other, And that's exactly what I plan to do. That's next time on PRETEND. I