Speaker: Just a warning before we begin today's episode. This is part 3 of a multipart series. Start with part 1, it will make a hell of a lot more sense. Also, this episode contains explicit language,references to suicide and child abuse. You've been warned. Looking back, Dr. Gressman says she has experienced prank calls in the past. While working on call at the hospital, she would get random calls. She didn't elborate on the nature of the calls but said that she would pick up every time. She had to because she was on duty. Dr. Gressman says she didn't make the connection until the instagram harrassment started happening. Could this be the same person? The police informed Dr. Gressman that the messages Caludia and Rick were recieving appear to be coming from the Rodriguez's own house. They asked her if she wants to press charges? Dr. Gressman declined. However, she said if the harrassment continies, they would be open to prosecution. As a result, the police closed the case. And conicidently, the stalking stopped. And for almost 3 months, there was peace. Not a single message was sent. But Claudia and David were certian it was almost a matter of time before the stalking started up again. "in your neighborhood, with my hitman. i hope you're having a delightful evening sir. tomorrow, it's going to be you and my hitman two hits to your skull with an axe." - "i might even poison the poochies too, - "you're going to hell, once i kill you and slaughter you, and smother your face with my semen" - "i'm going to kill you, and stab you too death. burn you in the desert. and steal your wifey." - "i'm at lowes right now, planning your death sir" - "i purchased an axe, some tape, and i have hired a hitman" -- "i'm going to kill you" - "going to blow your brains out" - "shoot your stomach, and blow your esophagus and guts out." - "bang bang" - "i'm going to shoot your johnson" This case is far from closed. I'm Javier Leiva and this is PRETEND, stories about real people pretending to be someone else. This stalking case is far from over. Claudia and Rick, hired a private investigator to try to find new evidnece to support their case. That was a bust. Then, they called their lawyer and asked to send John Gressman a cease and desist letter. That didn't stop the stalker either. Pizzas were now being sent to random people under claudia's name. Meanwhile, the police contact Cox Communications to see if it's possible for one of their employees to manipulate or mask their IP address to make it look like messages were originiating from the Rodriguez's house. Cox said,they don't want to say anything was impossible. But this kind of activity is virtually impossible. Those were their words. She went on to say that anybody who had access to the network associated with IP addresses work in Atlanta, thousands of miles away. Cox communications added, that John Gressman was a video producer for the marketing team and only worked there for a year and would not have access to their networks. The police also noted that the Rodriguez's have updated their router multiple times and and the IP address still is coming back to an account associated with Claudia Rodriguez. I sked Claudia and David if they police ever asked to confiscate their phones and computers. They told me they refused to turn them over. Tanya and Rick: yeah, I guess at hindsight's 2020, I should, I guess I should have given them my phone, but, I was like, I'll never get my phone back and I'll have to buy another one. They told me they just traded in their old devices in exchange for brand new phones. None of the new devices were used to communicate to the stalker. if they would've asked us in the beginning of October when, when my phone was full of stuff, you know, I would've gladly handed over my phone. Claudia realizes this wasn't a good look, so she called up the detective who was working on the case. I called him and he was like, You know, you're doing it. You just need to admit it. You know you're doing it. And I was like, I am not doing it. And then I said something that was probably not the smartest thing to say, but I don't care. But he got me so upset. I was crying and I said, You're making me feel crazy. You are making me feel insane right now. Okay. I am not doing it, but

Javier: cuz he's accusing you of being crazy.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Right. And I was hysterical. Hysterical. The case was closed again. The stalking started june 2019. It's now the spring of 2021. Almost 2 years of non-stop torture. But finally, after the police closed their case again, the stalker seems to be at bay. This time it seems like he's gone for good. It's been 6 months since the Rodrigez family has received a message. This is the longest quiet period they've had since this whole mess started back in 2019. Claudia and David change their numbers and decided to move to the suburbs. 20 miles away from the man who they believe is tormenting them. And it worked. This is around the time that I met Claudia and David. They reached out to me because they wanted to clear their name. Tanya and Rick: you asked me how, you know, why are we, why we brought this this far? I'm I, I fear that, that he has wicked thoughts in his head and that one day he might carry it out and we might see on the news. That she was murdered or something he's threatened to blow up the hospital. And I, uh,

Javier: it's true. Some of these fantasies could manifest into something real, right.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: So that's what, I'm what I'm hearing. And if that happens, I'm going to go straight to the reporters and say, Hey, this is what we went through with this guy. And we got no response from law. But the strange thing is that the stalking stopped. So, Why would they want a podcast to stir things up? The last thing I want to do is air this podcast and be the reason why the stalking started again. I don't want this show to revictimize these people. It's an intriuging story but honestly, BUT I passed. I told Claudia and Davd that I would keep an eye on their case but had no plans to produce it as a podcast series. I only know Claudia and David in the context of this case. but what do their friends and family think of all of this? 2022-10-19 Laura +16023506887 on at 12.42 (Track 1): they're very normal people who are all about family, all about family. All they, all of their kids live in their home. they're devout Jehovah Witness. This is Cindy, a cousin of David and close friend of Claudia. Tonya rarely uses a curse word. they're just normal people. They 2022-10-19 Laura +16023506887 on at 12.42 (Track 2): don't 2022-10-19 Laura +16023506887 on at 12.42 (Track 1): do drugs. Um, I don't, I think very rarely will have an alcoholic beverage. I, I don't know how else to describe 'em Tanya and Rick: I called up someone who's been through a nightmare just like this. Her name is Heather.

Susan: you hear me now? Okay, good. I was just wanting to be sure.

Speaker: Heather was the target of an elaborate online hoax involving dozens of frightening characters, who made threats of kidnapping, murder, rape, and torture. She knows first hand what's it's like to be tormented by someone like this. So I asked Heather, looking back, would you have wanted someone to produce a podcast about your case while it was happening?

Javier: was trying to convince them not to do this because honestly, I don't see the value and rehashing this.

Speaker: I asked her that. not, because it's not something that needs to be, pursued in terms of some justice If the guys stopped, bothering them and, and constantly tormenting them, why would they want to go on a podcast and, risk upsetting him and starting this whole thing over again. I was concerned that going on air my, you know, be. Like you said, like sort of taking a whack at the hornet's nest. I don't think that people can let go of this. It's so psychologically traumatic. And I think it's the inf the humiliation and the anger about being manipulated for such a long time and to such an extent, and taking the brunt of just an immense amount of personal abuse.

Javier: it seems like they, at this point they want revenge. Like they're angry about this whole thing, but I don't know if that's the right way to deal with that.

Speaker: I don't know. I keep going back to, I would just let it die. But you were, felt really passionate right before we stopped talking about it as to why they shouldn't let it die.

Susan: I didn't want I, in my own case, I didn't want to let it, I wanted it to die. And if it had died on its own, there would have been nothing to pursue legally. but there is an importance to keeping it alive because of the feeling of just the injustice of it.

Speaker: And you want someone to be held accountable. Tanya and Rick: If it were me, I would try to move on and to put the stalker behind me. But Claudia and David don't want to leave this alone. They want to hold the the Dr. and her husband responsible. So, the Rodriguez family filed a complaint with the state medical board. They say that yhe perpetrator has also texted them Chelsea's birth date and private health issues infromation only the doctor, parents, and patient should know. Also, if Dr. Gressman was truly concerned Claudia suffered from Munchausen by proxy and didn't do anything about it, she should be held accountable. The Rodriguez's reminded the medical board that doctor Gressman is a mandated reporter and she the responsibility to report that information to Child Protective Services and she didn't. Their hope is that once the medical reviews this case, they will vote to strip doctor dressman away from her medical licence..

Tanya: they interviewed us in June for over an hour.

Speaker: They asked lots of detailed questions and, Then they said that they had assigned an investigator to it. and then she said it could take six months or longer for the investigation to be over well, we're at the six month mark now. So I don't know if the, if the other party has been made aware of the findings Tanya and Rick: Like I said, I didn't have active plans to turn this into a podcast series. But like you, I couldn't look away. So I kept talking with Claudia and David. I wanted to know the results of the medical board investigation.

Javier: With the stalker at bay , I took this opprotunity to learn more about Claudia and Daivd.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: We have three boys.

Javier: Oh yeah. Three boys. Claudia explains that her and David have 5 kids. But all but one are adults.

Speaker: There's James who is 22 years old He also has a developmental disability like his sister And he's got the mentality of probably a 10 year old.

Javier: Despite the fact that James is an adult, Claudia and David have gaurdianship over him. Meaning, they have legal authority to make decisions on their son who is legally deemed incompetent.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: I don't know if you know anything about the guardianship process, but it's not an easy thing to go through. You have to have paper work. You have to have a paper trail, You have to prove that your adult kid is not able to make decisions. And so it's a process and you have to go to

Rick: court because you're taking rights away from that

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: he's, he. Can be a challenge at times. And he's got severe asthma and he has like p he has like a C O P D level asthma. terrible lung function, it's, we manage it with meds and stuff

Javier: Then there is their oldest son Will. Will is 29 years old.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: he's here. He's got,

Javier: lives with you guys.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: yeah, he's got some medical problems that are pretty debilitating Yeah, but he's got something called ankylosing spondylitis, which is, I think it's called Bamboo Spine to be honest. But, It's a autoimmune disease where if it, if you aren't medicated, your spine will basically fuse into one bone and you're stuck in whatever position it fuses into.

Javier: Oh man. That,

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: yeah, so he's on some pretty heavy duty medicines and, he's with us

Javier: Now let's talk about their oldest daughter who we're calling Logan. Logan is the daughter who the postal inspector accused of sending out all the messages.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: our oldest daughter she suffers from severe depression and anxiety due to the fact that, when she was 14 she was molested by a family friend and so she's never really recover. From it. And she's 29 now, and she still suffers like you wouldn't believe

Javier: The youngest child is Alex. Alex is not their biological son.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: we adopted our great nephew. he's nine years old right now, but we got him when he was four months old. He's funny, he's got smart, very smart, very smart. and we love him. He's just a joy.

Javier: That's good. and no disabilities. Like he's perfectly healthy and

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: he is got ADHD , but he was drug exposed in the womb, so I'm not surprised, But no, he's, no, he's, he's healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah we've got some heavy duty stuff here with,

Javier: you know,

Speaker: The fifth child is who we're calling Chelsea. She was Dr. Gressman's former patient. got a shunt in her brain, from a misdiagnosis when she was an infant. They, didn't diagnose her correctly. And so by the time they figured out what was wrong with her, she had irreversible brain damage. she has a shunt in her brain that has to be monitored. By a neurosurgeon. So she's had several shunt revisions. She's had two spinal de tethering. she has to be watched. plus she has a pain problem that developed in 2005 and we've never been able to get it resolved. it's a weird syndrome. central body, central. It's called central nervous, central pain syndrome, Central nervous pain syndrome,

Rick: or she's been very hard, hard to treat by most doctors that they're, it's a lot of guesswork. And she gets sent home still in pain and they say it's

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: psychological, but it's clearly not psychological. It's her brain like misfiring. pain signals to the scars on her it's been hard. Like 2018 was horrible. She had a de tethering, she had the stoma surgery first by Dr. You know who,

Javier: Dr. You know who is Dr. Gressman.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: And then, and then she had a very serious infection from that. And then the neurosurgeon. said that the, that surgery should have never been done, in the first place, that the doctor should have referred her to neurosurgery first.

Javier: This surgery happened in 2018, a year before the stalking began. I've reviewed Chelsea's medical records with permission from Claudia. It's a detailed log of Dr. Gressman's diagnosis, surgery recommendation, plus the post-op reports. It seems that despite the fact that Caludia and David elected to continue with the surgery, they now believe the surgery Dr. Gressman performed was completely uncessiary and could have caused more harm than good.

Speaker: They say that what she really needed was spinal cord surgery. a After Dr. Gressman's surgery, Chelsea underwent another surgery. You see, for most people, the spinal cord floats freely. But for some children, the spinal cord gets pulled down and gets stuck. Surgeons are able to place a tether along the spine to help guide the spine as a grows. This surgery is minimially invasive and mostly done on children. Chelsea is not a child. At the time of the surgery she was in her 20s. Tanya and Rick: they had a teacher how to walk again because she lost feeling from the knees down. and, there for a month. We were there for a whole month, getting her, strong enough to, learn how to walk again. that kid's been through so much and it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking, and I'm gonna go on a ramp, but I take offense to Dr. You know, who, ever suggesting that I'm bringing harm to my kid and putting her through unnecessary medical procedures that really makes me angry. She has no clue what we've been through with her. No clue whatsoever. So to say that to the police really upsets me. Cause that is the farthest thing from the truth. Nobody in their right mind would put their kid through unnecessary surgical procedures.

Javier: And that's exactly what Dr. Gressman has accused Claudia of.

Speaker: Dr. Gressman told police that the Rodriguez family enjoys bringing in her daughter Chelsea for treatments. Even her staff noticed the unusal behavior, noting that something was "odd"about that family." The doctor added that Claudia milks Chelsea's illness for attention and that her behavior she describes as Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Like we talked about in earlier episodes, Munchausen by proxy is a mental illness where a caretaker, usually the mother harms their child or children in order to create the illusion of an illness. These people are not typcially motivated by money. They're simply seeking attention. Munchausen by proxy got it's name from the German aristrocat Baron von Münchhausen, an 18th century German calvary officer, who was known for telling unbelievable tales about his adventures. This disorder has a silly name. And it's named after a silly guy. But there's nothing silly about it. Many of us have seen the Netlfix documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest about Gypsy Rose Blanchard. And there's another case about a woman named Lacey Spears who poisoned her son with salt through his feeding tube. The boy died at age five. So, how common is Munchausen by proxy syndrome. It's really hard to tell because there are no reliable statistics or studies showing exactly how many people struggle with this disorder. However, the Cleveland Clinic estimates that 1,000 of the 2.5 million child abuse cases are considered Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another. That's the medical term for munchausen. you two have been through a lot with all of your kids, and I guess from, from a distance, if you're just looking at a chart or or just not intimately involved, it does seem like a lot of procedures, but you're going through a lot of trial and error at the same time too. But I could totally see how somebody could look at all this and say, Wow, yeah, much housing by proxy. I could see how they could jump to that conclusion. possibly, maybe but If your child needs to see the neurosurgeon, then you take your kid to the neurosurgeon. If your daughter cannot urinate and she cannot void, then you have to take your child to the doctor that can remedy that. I have no choice. what if I didn't take her back to Dr. You know who, and her bladder exploded? Tanya and Rick: Then what? I'm liable for that. no, as a parent, I would do anything and everything to help my kid out, especially if my kid is in pain or, I would go to the end of the world to fix it. So I could totally understand that. As a parent, I sympathize with that. But I could also see from a distance, if somebody puts it all together, they're like, Oh wait, they're, they might be going overboard Tanya and Rick: Yeah, you know what, so was in and out of hospitals from about 2000, the fall of 2005, all the way up until about 2012. It was like a revolving door. we were taking her to Dr, you know, who's office monthly practically, because we were having, major complications. and Javier, what I, what I, read into this too, is the, is she, I think mentioned this in the police report, that it was unusual for a patient to be seen that often. So I think complexity frustrated her, whereas she was, she's used to doing patients that heal up and they're gone. (music)

Javier: Police say that whoever is sending these messages is living in that house. They are convinced that Claudia has mental disorder and making all this up. That's their theory, anyway. But, if it's not Claudia and David, could it be one of the five children still living at home? Remember, 4 out of the 5 kids are adult age.

Speaker: Maybe police have this all wrong. Claudia and David are just two ordinary parents who were just dealt a bad hand. They say their kids can't be the culprits because they each have a solid alibi. I wanted to learn more about the kids, so I started witht their older son Will. I'm bleeping out his real name for privacy reasons. so all five children live with you guys still, but you know, you, you told me once a little bit about him, and I know that he had circumstances too, got, he got in trouble Tanya and Rick: In the state that we live in.

Rick: You can, you can, you can urinate in public and be, be labeled arrested. Arrested

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: as a sex offender, right?And he was, I feel treated unfairly, but nonetheless, he's paying the consequences. I warned the kid, he didn't listen to me,

Javier: was he ever considered a suspect by the cops? did they ever, Cuz I didn't read any of that in the police report. Like they never brought up any of your son.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: No, because he, at the time, he did not have a device. He was not allowed to have a device. And then he actually got a device, in December of 2019, and we don't monitor it. Probation monitors it, they put Net Nanny on it, and they watch his movements. So he's not allowed to go on social media. He's, they, and then they grab his phone. When he does make a visit, they'll take his phone randomly and go through it. Yeah, So because of that, they naturally rolled him out. Yes.

Javier: And do you have a good relationship with him? everybody has problems with their parents, but do you guys have a healthy relationship like,

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Yeah. he is. He's a know it all sometimes and will run his mouth, but we shut him down pretty quickly. But, he, for the most part, he's a good kid. I, he's a man, but I call him my kid, but he's a hard worker. he does what he's supposed to do. He comes home when he is supposed to be home. He tells me where he is. yeah, we have a good relationship with him. How about their oldest daughter Logan. What do we know about her? Again, I'm bleeping out her real name to protect her privacy. Logan suffers from depression. she wrote all her friends a suicide note. And then she, She actually had texted me, but I was sleeping. This was like 1, 1 30 in the morning and, and I didn't see it till the next morning and I had just assumed that she had come home cuz she worked late So I'm figuring she's sleeping. And then I read it, I read our message, which was basically a suicide note saying she, she was gonna drive to the Grand Canyon and jump off the edge. And let me tell you, that scared the crap out of us. But my daughter actually drove all the way to Grand Canyon. It was snowing up there. And she got, she drove all the way to the parking lot and walked the edge and changed her. As soon as Claudia and David realized what was happening, they jumped in their car and drove out into the desert to get her. And when we brought her home and then we took her to a hospital and that is the night, night, morning. You know it into the night next morning. That's when the harassment restarted. I'm not in jail. Ha ha, I've missed you bigots, and, you know, and I'm, and, and that's when that restarted. And she was in our site, did not have her device. Claudia and David say this is proof that Logan is not responsible for these harrassing messages because she was in a psychiatric hospital away from all electronic devices. And she's also, she's also the person that Detective Interviewed And, and they accused her. They blamed her and she came out his. Hysterical crying she has mental problems, okay? She has nothing to do with this. She was hospitalized on two separate occasions while this crap was going on, and she did not have any access to her phone, her tablet, nothing. As far as the other kids go, well, two of them have an intellectual disabilitiy. And the youngest is barely 10 years old. So if the kids aren't doing this, and the IP address is coming from inside their house, could it be that Claudia and David are doing this to themselves? Or perhaps it's someone else who's close to them. That's the question that lingers in my mind. Because more than 80% of stalking survivors report that the person stalking them was connected to them in some way. That's according to the Centers for Disease and control.

Susan: There's a there's I guess, levels of, of, of connectedness to stalkers. Like what is truly random, random is some wild person that you don't know at all. You have zero connection to who just latched themselves onto your social media account in their case. It wasn't really random at all. There was a specific connection that brought this person in touch with this couple that only needed medical care.

Speaker: And there, the connect them, whatever it is that connected them, which makes it so egregious and the really personal and hideous insults that this person, foisted upon their disabled child, were just despicable, just

Javier: stuff. I

Susan: vicious and unspeakable and went on for a good long time.

Javier: yeah.

Susan: I think these characters, these types of people, whether it's random, whether it's half random or whether they really actually know you, they become addicted to doing this.

Javier: And then the other thing that I questioned, like if I, if I'm trying to think that maybe Tanya and Rick are behind us, like, why would they both be on it? Like, I'm just trying to imagine it. My wife wanted to pull a stock like that. I wouldn't agree to that. Or, you know, like, but they both are on the same page here.

Speaker: Like this is happening. this. is real.

Susan: Yeah. Would you, when you've gone through it, like day to day in real time, like I have, um, with Tanya, um, you really see that there's no way that she could be doing this. I mean, unless she is the master spy of all master spies,

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: But none of this seems to matter anymore, because after the Rodriguez's moved and changed their number, the stalker disappeared completely. There were no calls. No texts. No random pizza deliveries. Almost 7 months of peace after a 2 year ordeal. Life was starting to feel normal again.... until.

Javier: He's he's back. Isn't he like,

Tanya: He's back. Yeah. And, what's ironic is I lately I've been feeling kind of uneasy and I'm pissed off.

Speaker: I'm mad, I'm angry. I'm feeling all these emotions. After almost 7 months of tranquility, the stalker strated back up. yesterday afternoon, so that on four o'clock I got a phone call from one of my friends and she said, I just need to tell you that I got a message from you on Instagram. And it said, my scrotum with like two, emojis, uh, uh, eggplant, emojis, and I instantly had a sick feeling. It was our soccer. I kept apologizing. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. She's like it's okay. Suddenly other family and friends tell Caudia they're getting nasty messages from her account. I'm in the process of recovering my Instagram account because he overtook it. He hacked my Instagram, which made me sick because My private phone number is in my Instagram account on private. And I knew that if he hacked my account, he's got my phone number. and then about, 8 22 last night, I get a high with three eggplant emoji

Javier: And that was, that was the first text message that he sent you.

Speaker: And then I said, leave me alone and leave my friends and family.

Javier: And you don't recycle passwords or anything like that to you? Like, do you use the same password over and over again? Cause

Tanya: I tend to do that.

Speaker: I know.

Javier: That's how he hacked your. Your Instagram, because it's easy to, to find passwords. let's say, So I dunno, or a dentist you gave your dentist, your phone, your email address. And your, and your password and all that stuff. And that now is hacked. And if you use that same password in your social and your Gmail, well, you need to do is protect your Gmail, make sure that that password is iron clad.

Speaker: I mean, I would recommend getting a password manager. It's, it's kind of a pandemic at the beginning, but it's so worth it, That, that way, every, every place has a unique password and you don't even need to memorize it. It's like this huge complicated password. And, and then your situation, I would do that for sure.

Tanya: Yeah,

Javier: I mean, are you going to, are you going to keep responding to them?

Tanya: No, I don't really want to respond to him. But last night I was just like, what is your problem? Like, why are you doing this? Why are you bothering me? You know?

Speaker: But no, I don't want to have a conversation with him.

Javier: just block them. Like don't, don't even like, if he keeps messaging, you don't give him fire or fuel to his fire, you know, just leave him alone.

Tanya: Well, you know, what what's funny is even if I ignore him, he'll just keep on making rude comments or he will put out more incriminating information, Last night. I just felt like I needed asking, you know, why are you doing this? And I was hoping he would bring up exactly what he brought up, which is the medical board.

Javier: well, I feel,

Tanya: prompt.

Javier: I feel very confident now and I approach. 'cause like before I, I gotta be honest with you. I mean, every time I'd think about working on this story, it, it makes my stomach just churn because I did not want to be the cause of you getting harassed again. But it seems to me like you're getting harassed again.

Speaker: So there's, I'm not going to be, taking a whack at the. Wasserman us, you know what I mean? Like they're already agitated. So I got a, I mean, there's nothing to lose at this point.

Tanya: No, there's nothing to lose at this point. You know, there's everything to gain as far as I'm concerned,

Speaker: Now, what do you think?

Javier: I don't know. I don't know what to think. You know what I mean? Like, I, I, I believe you, I believe that you're getting harassed. You know, I haven't talked to . The doctor at all I, who knows maybe this is somebody else completely. I don't know. You know?

Tanya: Yeah, but who would know that the doctors under, ma uh, medical board investigation?

Javier: no, absolutely. does it keep me posted, thank you for giving me the update and I'm so sorry that this is happening again.

Tanya: Well, thank you. And, uh, we will talk again.

Speaker: (music)

Tanya: Hey Javier, it's . It's Thursday, like around 4 45 our time. I just wanted to touch base with you and let you know that I did reach out to Police Department today, and it did not go well. I was treated horribly and um, I just wanna talk to you about it. It was awful.

Speaker: Thank you. Bye. (music)

Tanya: It's been two days since the stalker started back up again. And this time, he took things to a whole new level.

Speaker: Yeah, we got, I got phone calls on my phone early this morning, like around two 30 Since we last spoke on the phone, the stalker inundated Claudia with a barrage of lude and disgusting messages. Had made comments about, his infant daughter, what, he, wasn't very happy with having,A baby girl. And he wanted to, lock her in her crib and he used some derogatory language towards the baby and wanted to, lock it in his crib. And we'll put it outside with a bottle it's cold here. it's just all very disturbing. This time, he was directing his rage on a baby. Is this true, did Dr. Gressman have a baby during the 7 months of peace?I was able to find a baby registry for Dr. Gressman online. It does appear she and her husband were expecting a baby girl. One message read, "Honestly, feel like grabbing this stupid ass clingy child by the neck. I just hate being a parent period. Maybe if it was a boy, I'll be more compassionate." The messages continued on to Christmas morning. When Claudia and David would ignore him, he would write, "Can you say Merry Christmas back. Be respectful of my beliefs." This is in reference to the fact that Claudia and David are Jehovah's witnesses and don't celebrate christmas. When they wouldn't respond, the stalker would write, "say it before I shake my child." Claudia and David were alarmed by this recent batch of messages. It's one thing to taunt adults with immature messages. But this time, he could actually be harming a child. They felt compelled to do something. So the Rodriguez's called the police in their new city where they now live. the officer asked me what was going on. And I told him that we've had a long history of having. harass our family. And I said, we've taken great steps into getting him out of our lives, including, changing our phone number. So I showed him my phone. He w he read through my phone Claudia says the police didn't take them seriously. Once they read the previous police report on their case, he dismissed their concerns. And so he asked me if I, Was, if I had any type of a mental issue and I said, I do because of the stalking.

Tanya: And, I've been seeing a psychiatrist for a little over a year and four months and he says, can I get the name of your psychiatrist? So then he basically twisted it. And he said, do you think that you have a problem with like multiple personalities and maybe one of your personalities is doing it or you're doing it and you just don't remember. And I said, absolutely. Absolutely not. I do not have a split personality in that upsets me.

Speaker: The messages kept rolling in. "Can't wait to hack your instagram account and post videos of me choking my child on your instagram. Claudia and David say the police didn't seem to think this alleged child abuse was worth looking into. However, Claudia's counselor took these messages very seriously. I just got a message from my counselor asking us for our, our home address and stuff, because she said, I need, I'm going to add your name to the, to the report. The counselor reported Dr. Gressman and her husband James Gressman t child protective services. Maybe a visit from child protective services and you know, is, and getting it going again is going to solve it. Yeah, something's not right. Something's not right. I have dozens of screenshots from the stalker. What do the messages say about the person behind the keyboard?

Javier: And I have the thread and I read it. And it's the same kind of childish, grammar or childish way of phrasing sentences.

Speaker: You know, it seems very immature even for, for an adult. It seems like a stretch for a doctor's husband. You know what

Susan: No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Why are doctors elevated into this sort of upper strata that are there? They're slightly above us, regular folks. I don't see it that way at all. I don't see them as being above any kind of behavior.

Speaker: I've seen a million true crime shows where doctors are killing their wives. Doctors are killing her patients, they're not above and beyond crime and criminality.

Javier: I guess what I was getting at was. If you read the text messages, it just doesn't sound like, like a well-educated person wrote that they, they sound kind of childish. Right.

Speaker: But then one of the things that the police said was that they're in this room with them and they're in tiniest messaging and she's getting messages back and they make an observation that the youngest daughter who is disabled was giggling. and say that she's watching YouTube. And that's why she was laughing. Well, the detectives noticed this and they think it's odd, but they checked the kid's iPad and they didn't see anything. So there's, there's no reason that to justify their suspicion. And then they blamed it on the eldest daughter that it couldn't have possibly had been her because she was.

Javier: Actually at a medical facility with no access to devices at the time. very childish writing, but it's, it's very distinctly male. It is so male, the discussion of body parts is male.

Speaker: I've read all of the text messages. I've experienced them through her as they were happening live. She would call me up, oh my God, he's sending me all these messages.

Susan: it is very clearly. It is focused on sex. Hyper-focused on sex, hyper-focused on sex with the wife, somehow hyper-focused on killing his wife, which is unbelievably frightening. it's very aggressive. It's very juvenile. and when you look at it over a sustained period of time, it comes through loud and clear as a very unstable male who is looking for an outlet for his, His impulses, I agree with Heather. The messages seem like they're coming from a very immature man. But I would agrue that real men don't talk like that. It almost seems like someone trying too hard to talk like a dude. Check out what he says in some of the messages:

Speaker: First, he uses way too many eggplant emojis. He refers to Dr. Gressman as "wifey." He calls the Rodriguez's bigots because of their Jehova's witness faith. he randomly says his balls itch. One message reads, "Your daughter deserves to be put down. Retarded as fuck." He almost never writes in complete sentences. And uses words that sound the same as another word but has a different meaning. I believe they call that a homophone. All this makes me wonder if this isn't John Gressman at all. But Claudia disagrees.

Tanya: how would, how would anyone else know? What was being said, there's just things that no one really knows that he blurts out like the medical investigation that we didn't broadcast that. And he's asking me why just to get the medical board involved.

Speaker: Okay. How did you know that?

Javier: All right.

Tanya: You know, stuff like that?

Javier: the police would say, well, the only other person that would know that this year, because these messages are coming from inside the house.

Tanya: Exactly and that's not right.

Susan: Here's Heather again. Her and I have been following this case for years now.

Speaker: but then if you think that if the whole thing is totally made up, I mean, it really would be like one of the greatest stories of all time, I couldn't have come up with my own story myself and I don't think she could either.

Javier: Right. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty complex. And the, the, the screenshots that I have read are pretty shocking and I calling her kid's retarded and you know, it's just,

Speaker: why would anybody say that about their own kid? Yeah.

Susan: Well, it, if, if that were the case, it really would be a, like a case unto itself and its own category. If that were the case. I don't think it is in this case, crazy world. I guess we all have to, you know, leave our imaginations that our mind open for any possibility. Um, but when you look at it like a criminal case, like where does the evidence lead, you know, where, where did it start from?

Speaker: And we do have evidence. The evidence clearly shows that all the messages are coming from inside the Rodriguez's own home. Next time on PRETEND... I'm going to call Dr. Gressman and get her side of the story. Plus, I messaged the stalker. Egging him of so he redirects his rage at me. Maybe talking with this person will expose who's sending these messages.