Speaker: Hello, I'm detective police department got a call from a doctor regarding a letter you sent to her Um, just to let you know that Dr. Is the actual victim in this investigation. Um, we're or at this point, these phone calls that, uh, and are alleging, were threatening, actually were produced inside their home.

Javier: Um, at this time the investigation is ongoing, uh, Since Dr. And are not the suspects in this case, be advised that the threatening email may continue because they're not being produced by him. They have any questions regarding this investigation. Give me a call back at This is a voicemail from the detective working the case. He clearly has made up his mind. The stalker is not Dr. Grisman or her or her husband, John Grisman. He says someone else has been sending these messages who the police don't seem terribly motivated to figure it out.

Speaker: All they know is that the messages are coming from inside the Rodriguez's own home. meanwhile the stalker who has identified himself as doctor. Meanwhile, the stalker who has identified himself as John GRE continues his attack on Claudia and David. Tanya and Rick: He scares me. He scares me, and they already think I'm the one doing it. And so I think I'm, I feel I'm one step away from having the cops make a visit here.

Javier: Why? Why you think that? What? What do you think is gonna happen?

Speaker: he threatened to hack into my Instagram and embarrass me by putting child porn. That's what it is, child porn. It's criminal. And I'm scared.

Javier: In today's episode, the GREs and the Rodriguez family have an all out war.

Speaker: The longer I follow this case, the uglier it gets. I'm going to call Dr. Grisman to get her side of the. I'm even going to go toe to toe with the stalker himself. Yes. I'm going to go toe-to-toe with the stalker. Yes. I'm going to try and provoke the stalker to see if I could get them to reveal their identity. Um, Javier Leyva, and this is Pretend Stories about Real People pretending to be someone. hey, Javier. Hey, How's it going?

Rick: you wondered if she, if she even knew, um, all about the, the texting about the, the baby and stuff. Yeah. Well, anyway, so what what I did was I thought I would, I, I would give, them a bit of their own medicine.

Javier: David decided to send Dr. GRE the threatening screenshots concerning her baby. What if she doesn't know that her husband could possibly be abusing her child?

Rick: This is what I, I wrote It says This message is being sent as information only because I didn't want her to claim that we're harassing her a again, right? And I said your phone number was provided via text from a person positively identified as This person has also been threatening the life of his daughter. And then I put the Department of Child Safety was contacted by a third party provider,and a mandated reporter, and then I ended it by saying, this is the last message you will receive.

Javier: That message to Dr. Gman stent, that message to Dr. Gre sent the stalker through the.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: And then at 9 34, went crazy on my phone. He started firing messages. I will read them to you. it says, Okay. It started with bigot asshole. Shit's going to my lawyer. I know you fuckers did this shit about ready to take a rifle to your fuck's heads and maybe a golf club. Don't fucking mess with us. I really hate saying those words, but that's

Javier: what he said. Yeah, I'll find out. I totally get it.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Yeah. I'll find out where you bigots live. So watch out. Take a fucking golf club to your ugly ass husband's face while he's at work not

Javier: looking,

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Yeah, that's why he is home. Cause he, it's not safe. And then he said, duct tape his mouth, drag him down and fucking beat the shit out of him. Burn his buddy body and cut off his scrotum. Cut off his scrotum and feed it to my daughter. I want to fuck your Tard daughter. Oh wait. She might cry. Answer me bigot. And then I blocked him. And that was at 10 42. That rant was an hour long. Wow.

Javier: We're four episodes into the series and we haven't heard from Dr. Grace Grisman. Sure, we have her statements from the police report, but I want her side of the story. What?

Speaker: What does she have to say? What she has to say could potentially change everything. So I called her up into my surprise. She actually picked up, I told her who I was and her first question to me was, Who told you to call me? I was, It was Claudia, wasn't it? I asked her if she would be open to answering some of my questions about the case. I assured her that I wasn't coming into this with a bias view. There was very little evidence to suggest that she had anything to do with this. Her voice was trembling. but she stayed on the line.

Javier: She told me that she wants nothing to do with my project. She asked that I don't use her name or identify where she works. She also said that she was going to contact her attorney as soon as the call was over, but to my. She didn't hang up, so I asked her to describe her side of the story and she said that everything I need to know is in the police report.

Speaker: Her and her husband have nothing to do with this. After my call with Dr. Gre, I called Claudia to get her reaction. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): So I just got off the phone with 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): and what, 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): and we spoke for about 10 minutes. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Okay. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): And it kind of went just how I predicted in the scenario where she would talk that she would be pretty upset. It wants nothing to do with it says that the police report speaks for itself and that, um, she will be contacting her attorney, does not want her name, his name, her place of work, nothing that identifies her and that, yeah, that was basically it. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): She wasn't very nice. Was 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): No, she wasn't, I mean, she was nice. She was just as nice as you would if I, if a reporter surprised you outta nowhere with accusations. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Right. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): Yeah. I mean, I don't blame her for her reaction. I would've reacted the same, if not worse. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): right. True. Okay. So does, um, Did you ask her if, if we are harassing them? 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): yeah, yeah. And she says that the police report speaks for itself. She says that she's not denying that you're getting harassed, but it's definitely not. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Okay. She's, uh, um, I, I, I don't even know what to say, Javier. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I, Did you expect anything different? You know, it's like, 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): We can, we can now wait, wait for, for her to relate the, your call to, you know, tell about it and gonna 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): Oh, he was in the background. He and the baby. You could hear him 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Oh, okay. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): and, um, yeah, so just sounded like she was holding the baby because I could hear the baby very clearly, but he was definitely in the background. and I, she sounded rattled. I don't blame her. I would be rattled to just any unexpected call, you know. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): was, Was he running his mouth? 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): No, no. Nope. But, please let me know if, if you get. Messages. I definitely keep sending the screenshots. I expect to be talking to their attorney sometime today. Um, we'll see how 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): here's the thing. Okay. Here's the thing. If we are not doing it, and well, they're convinced that we're doing it, harassing ourselves, you know, I don't know what it is,So if we're not doing it and they're not doing it, you would think that she would want to work together to figure out who it is. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): Yeah, but maybe not. Like if she's not doing it, then she's got better things to do, you know? 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Yeah, but she said in the beginning, Maybe you'll be my guardian angel and figure it out. 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 1): Yeah, I don't know, man. She sounded pretty rattled. Um, That's not saying one thing or another. I mean, I think, you know, Yeah. I mean, it's not saying that she did it, it's not saying that she didn't do it, it just meant that she got caught off guard, you know? 2022-01-03 +14808860352 on at 12.54 (Track 2): Oh, goodie. That's the best. That's the best.

Javier: Claudia was giddy about this call with Dr. Gre. I tried to explain, I tried to explain to Claudia that there's nothing sketchy about these people other than the accusations she's making of, again, other than the accusations that she's making against them.

Speaker: You would think that somebody like the stalker, if it were who you think it is would be. Would have an extensive criminal history. Right.

Tanya: stop. Right? Right,

Javier: And I just ran a background check on him and he's clean as a whistle. you

Tanya: I don't know what to

Javier: I, I'm not saying that means anything. I'm just saying that, that doesn't mean he didn't do this.

Speaker: I'm just saying that he hasn't done anything criminal in the past that, that he's gotten caught. let's pretend that it's somebody else okay. Together and that is being set up. Okay. Then that means that we are all victims, including the Grims bees and they need to catch whoever it is because it's not right.

Javier: I feel like I'm getting nowhere where this story, the only real way to figure out who is talking,The only real way, the only real way to figure out who the stalker is, is for police to take the investigation further and subpoena some of these Messenger apps and subpoena some of these Messenger app companies and identify the user and the device, not just the IP address. But that doesn't seem likely because the police have made up their.

Speaker: Another way to figure out who he or she is, is if this stalker crosses the line and does something physi and physically harms the Rodriguez is, Let's hope to God that never happened. Let's just hope to God that never happens. But there is another. If I could talk directly with the stalker, I can feed him or her some false information.

Javier: And if that information gets out to the GREs, then we know it's them. Or if the Rodriguez has slip up and tell and refer to that information, then we know it's them. so I took a deep breath and opened up my anonymous text messaging app and typed quote, I would like to know why you're messaging the Rodriguez family.

Speaker: I'm a reporter working on a story about you. Then I press. What am I doing now? This person can message me nonstop. I could potentially become its next. I could potentially become its next target. So I sat patiently and waited exactly. One minute later I get a response because I fucking can. I wrote back. So what's your motivat? The stalker replied, Stop texting me before I send this to our lawyer. I said, Would you be open to talk to me? He said, Sure. The stalker said, Sure, I'd love to get my story out. So I called the number. Nobody picked up. I asked, Why don't you pick up the stalker? Why don't you just leave me alone? I said, I thought you wanted to talk. Then the stalker just started sending me insulting messages, like, quote pussy, I'm going to slash you with a gold club. I think he meant golf club. He called me a dumb tard, an ass head, you know, real mature. but after a while, he stopped responding. I wasn't able to engage with him enough to get a conversation going. Well, it was worth a shot. a few days later, I get a call from Claudia and David. How's it going? What? When did that come through? Or what happened exactly? Tanya and Rick: Um, well we were just, um, finishing up dinner and we were getting ready to enjoy a hockey game and we got a knock at the door, so my son answered it. and he said, Hey mom, some lady's here to see you. So I went to the door and stepped out and she said, Hi, I'm so and so. I'm a process server and I have paperwork to serve you and your husband. we're getting served by the and this process server, kind of giggled cuz I obviously knew who we were getting served by I. Lost control. Like I was so angry and I was out there just going crazy. Tanya and Rick: I told her, I said, This is absolutely ridiculous. Who's stalking who

Javier: I found the, the report. So it says on the 16th of December, the defendant falsely reported to Police Department that her husband was threatening her. Then on December 23rd, the plaintiff falsely reported to dcs that my husband was abusing our child.

Speaker: 3 months after being served with a restraining order, the FBI unexpectedly showed up at Rodriguez's house. So we're just, in our, in our bedroom watching TV kind of hanging out and we get a knock at the door and. jumped up to answer it and he was gone for a while. My dogs are barking and then all of a sudden I hear say, Well, we've had problems with a stalker. I had no idea who it was. I did jump up and poke my head out. it's the fbi, and I was like, Oh my gosh.

Rick: So I went out and, and talked to him. There was a, a woman agent. She did all the talking and then, then the, the, the man kind of, kind of stood back she said that she wanted to talk about some internet activity that that was coming from our house to somebody in Washington.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Hm.

Rick: and, um, she didn't say Washington State or DC or anything. And then showed up and asked you if her name was involved or, or whatever. And the agent said no, which I thought is kind of, kind of weird

Javier: And did they know anything about the stalker thing or was that news to them?

Speaker: I told him about the stalking that's been happening to us for the last three years. I told him about us changing houses.

Rick: And then I, I told her, he's threatened me on, on my route.

Speaker: they said something about that there was activity coming from your house to Washington. Did they elaborate or is that all they said? I mean, I'm curious about that. Tanya and Rick: Well, I, I stuck when I stuck my head out the door, No. But I didn't really get the opportunity to ask, because again, I didn't wanna go out there. I wasn't dressed. And, um, I have covid and.

Javier: I.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: and they weren't really offering any, any information,it was like, it was like odd and unusual behavior I think. I think she used the word messages. Sent to somebody, or I'm not sure if it was one person or several, I don't know,

Javier: and what other questions did she have? by knowing their questions, I could understand their motive and what they're looking for, you know?

Rick: Yeah. they only spoke a a, um, A little bit out, out there because I told them, I said, this is a three year story that I'm trying to tell you in super condensed form. And she like smiled and, and said, I bet. So she didn't really bring out too much.

Speaker: About why, why they were here. They, they basically just said they were just there because of some messages that came from our Tanya and Rick: house.

Javier: Yeah. something happened because let me tell you something, for the FBI to show up at your doorstep, I mean, that doesn't happen every day,

Speaker: No, right, right. Did they ask for anything? Did they ask for any of that? Tanya and Rick: no. We are an open book, and at this point I'm more than willing to give up my cell phone, my laptop, my tablet, our tower, everything. Like just take it and go through it. We're, we're done,

Javier: Hmm. That is so weird. I think one of the fascinating things about this is how little they asked.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Yeah, I know it's weird.

Rick: When we come back... the medical board reviews the Gressman allegations. Their decision, after the break.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: Claudia and David reported Dr. Gwen Gressman to the state medical board. They accused her of violating HIPPA laws and failure to report child abuse allegations. Members of the medical board interviewed the Rodriguez family and promised to review the case. we'll know what's on the agenda after the 11th because. They, they only post what's on the board's agenda for the next meeting. The medical board posted the May 2022 agenda, but Dr. Gressman's case wasn't on listed. Maybe they'll review it next month? June's agenda came and went and still Dr. Gressman's case was not on the agenda. Eventually Claudia and David heard back from the board. Now the medical board is saying, Oh, well, we don't see any wrongdoing. We're dismissing it. So you. She's not getting a consequence. So yeah, they, they put a consultant on it and they find no wrongdoing, apparently nothing that seems concerning. The Rodriguez strike out again. Firtst, they report the Gressman's to the police. That failed to get them any results. Then Claudia's therapist reported the Gressmans to child protective services. That failed too. And now, they tried to take away Dr. Gressman's license. If the Rodriguez's are wrong about this, they are the ones tormenting this Doctor and not the other way around. Claudia insists that they're the ones being harassed. Tanya and Rick: You know what? I'm you. You know what my biggest worry is right now is my husband's mental health and like the fact that it's very hot here right now, it's. It's like 112 degrees outside. I know that sounds dramatic, but when I heard despair and the sadness in his voice, it broke my heart,

Javier: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. And he's retiring right? Tanya and Rick: He's retiring, but he's, he is less than two miles away from that jackass.

Javier: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: That ass could be on his bicycle right now riding down to Washington Park, watching carry mail and laughing.

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. No, I

Speaker: Tanya and Rick: not right. Throughout my coverage of this case, the stalker flares up then he disappears for months at a time. But each time he returns, he seems to kick it up a notch.

Javier: Hey, I heard about last night this is making me feel like a freaking nut job. And I kind of have thought this for a really long time that he's in my phone listening to my conversations and I don't know why I feel this way, but I don't know.

Tanya: Claudia now claims that the stalker is listening in on her calls in real time.

Speaker: He just knows too much of what goes on in my life. And one time we were having a discussion with our attorney, and the forensic company that we hired. And I got really upset. I started crying. And then a very short time later after that meeting between the lawyer, us and the forensics team, I get a message from this stupid idiot and he says, Are you having a bad day? Yeah, but here's the thing that I don't believe because I could buy the whole, you know, he works at Cox communications and he knows people at Cox and maybe, you know, he spoofed your IP address. Let's just assume that that's all true. I don't think that he could tap into your cell phone calls. I mean, he doesn't work for the national security agency or anything.

Tanya: Well wait a minute, but you don't, But you don't know all the facts. You don't.

Speaker: Claudia tells me about a recent call with her friend Lori. Lori's cousin. Was talking about her trip to Mexico. and she was talking about her partner. Her work partner, his name is Clint, and I said, I was messaging at the same time and I said, If you can hear this conversation, what did, what did this person just say? And he said, she talked about Clint,

Javier: Okay. That, I'm not gonna lie, That could make anyone's hair stand on and.

Tanya: and my kids were upstairs. Okay? My girls were in their room decorating whatever my boys were PI playing on the Xbox. All three of them were upstairs. None of the kids knew who I was talking to, who I had been talking to. None of the kids were in earshot. The only person that was within proximity to me is , who was sitting on the couch near me.

Speaker: That's it. I said, Answer my question, who am I talking to about you? And then he said, On your cellular device. And I said, So you're telling me you can hear my calls? And he said, Maybe. And then I said, Okay, so who am I talking to right now? He said, A chick. And I said, That's wrong. I said that on purpose cuz I was talking to a chick. And then he goes, I'm not stupid. She has a deep voice. She does, She does have a deep voice. And, And we were not on speaker. Okay. And I said, So what is the person saying? And he said something about Clint.

Javier: Do you have any smart devices like Google Home or Alexa?

Tanya: I have an Alexa. We unplugged it.

Javier: Was it plugged in last night?

Tanya: Yes, it was plugged in. It's plugged in all the time. I use it all. I use it every day, all day. What after that,

Javier: Because I mean those, those devices are basically

Speaker: 2022-09-26 at 14.34 (Track 1): listening

Javier: devices but I'm just like stretching here. I'm on a limb here. Trying to guess how this guy could actually be listening in on your phone calls. That doesn't make sense, you know?

Speaker: Nope. It doesn't. All I know is I'm just really aggravated right now By the way, Google Home and Alexa devices are constantly listening. But those recordings live locally in the device. It's not streaming in real time. I doubt that's what's going on here. It's more likely that someone physically in the house is listening in. Or they have been bugged. Which would require a break in or something. Either way, this seems far fetched. On July of this year, 2022, police were called to local Papa Johns restauant. The store manager William Bell said that someone made hundreds of dollars worth of fradulent online orders using both Claudia and David's phone number. All week long, every single day, the store would get a new prank order. Some of the orders contained threats such as "Accept this or I'll shoot you." Another order had a message that read, "Mass shooting at Papa Johns." Other messages implied that the stalker was watching the store. "I saw the dumb ass officers there yesterday." Fake orders were still coming through even while police were speaking with Claudia and Rick. The Papa Johns Manager, William Bell, told police that he looked up John Gressman on Facebook. In one of the few photos of Gressman, he has a distinct mustache. Bell told his employees to be on the look out for anyone who matches his description. After work on day, the manager William Bell went to the gas station across the street and says his spotted a man with a curl cue mustach past the pizza shop. Bell believes this was John Gressman driving a black cadillac escalade. The next day William Bell says he spotted the same cadillac across the street and whithin minutes of seeing him, another fake order came through using Claudia's number. The message read, "was at the gas station stupid ass." 11 more prank orders came through, but now this time the messages were directed personally at William Bell, the manager. One message read, "Papa Johns Future Mass Shooting." Another message read, "Fat ass manager. Going to shoot papa. Fuck him." "Pow pow papa john. Bang Bang" The call kept rolling in. And one day, William Bell picks up the phone and calls the number that placed the order. Bell told police that after he identified himself as the papa johns manager, the man on the other end of the call said, "Oh shit." and hung up. I called William Bell, the Papa Johns manager to get his take on the situation. 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: So initially I believed

Speaker: I had no reason not to. These people were.

Javier: They were

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: getting orders from my store and they, they said that they didn't order it. So I had no reason not to

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: So they, I had them come down to my store. I introduced myself as William Bell. and then one of those orders came through using my name. I had never met the gentleman who is being. I've never spoken with him. I've never seen him. Same thing goes with the, uh, the family who is

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: supposedly happening to.

Speaker: Um, so up until my name got used in one of the orders, I believed them because I had no reason not to. But for him to know my 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: physically impossible, my name's

Speaker: And when you say that, When you say your name, you're talking about William Bell, like diesel. Go buy some other names, [Mic bleed]

Javier: Yeah. So

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: everybody at my store.

Speaker: So if, if he had came in, like as a customer, everybody at the store that it happened at, they don't call me William

Javier: they call me Big Papa

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: or Billy. So there's no way somebody would've known William

Speaker: Right. Unless they've seen like a police report or something like that. 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: Right. Which, and

Javier: this has happened well before the

Speaker: So, what do you see your theory now?

Javier: So my

Speaker: theory 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: Now is either, I know that they said that they have a, uh, mentally

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: child. Uh, my theory is either they are, either their child is lashing

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: this. , they are doing it and trying to have some kind of gang I don't know the guy. I don't know them. I don't know any of it. I just know what I know. Right.

Speaker: That's not what I expected when I called have you had a lot of conversations with the detectives on the case? 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: I have not spoken with detectives. Not once. They have not contacted me. Uh, I haven't had any, I haven't had any contact with the police since the last order that

Speaker: 2022-10-19 William Bell-Papa Johns: No, it sounds like, uh, like reverse stalking. yeah, very, very bizarre, 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: Sounds to me like they're the ones stalking him and they're looking for some kind

Speaker: 2022-10-19

William Bell-papa Johns: What that gain is in their mind, I don't know. Cause I am

Javier: not done.

Speaker: who has the time for that? crazy. Stay at home mom. (music)

Javier: So I called the, the manager of that source. he was very easy to talk to.

Tanya: Yeah, he's nine.

Javier: Yeah. he remembers it clear as, And he knew exactly what I was talking about, when I talked to William, he said yes. we did get a call back. , we called back the number. Somebody did say, Oh shit, but we did not have a caller ID system at the time, we do now. So no, his name did not come through. That number was given through us, through Papa John's.

Tanya: Hall Center,

Javier: Call center and, um, so, so that part is false. there was no on the, on the caller id. And then he said that the person that he saw on the catalog, just vaguely resembled him, but he is not sure and almost positive that that's not him.

Speaker: So he was really downplaying that, which contradicts what? What was said on the police report. So he's had a big change of heart since that police report was taken because he said that he initially really believed you guys, and you guys came in with a lot of paperwork and, and kind of told him your story and he really, he really believed you, but now he thinks that it's just you or somebody in your house making this up,

Tanya: William said that.

Javier: Mm-hmm. , I have it on re recording.

Tanya: Wow. I don't even know what to say because I had. My stack of papers that I took because he was gonna call the police and I took it with me so I could show, the officer and, and I, I talked to William and told him what the living hell that we had been going through. And then that evening when the calls started coming back through with the mass shooter 2022, you know, he called me and said, Come back.

Speaker: And so I did and he could clearly see that we weren't doing it. William was getting the phone calls and the orders while we were talking, while we were talking to the cops and talking to him. he said it's either them or somebody in their house, but they're playing a sick game and this is a reverse stalking.

Tanya: That's what he said. Those were his words. he felt very strongly about it. He had a very strong opinion, on this. He's entitled to his opinion, but he hasn't lived the hell that we've lived for the last three and a half years.

Speaker: When we come back from the break, you're going to hear from the detective working on the case. He reveals new information that will change your whole perspective on this case. It made me so mad. That's after the break. Claudia and David' backs are against the wall. Nothing seems to be going their way. Out of desperation, they reach out to the detective who worked on the case.

Tanya: Every single time we get harassment, I'm just gonna, um, start calling and leaving messages and telling him that I need to talk to him. And then yesterday after being ignored, called his supervisor

Speaker: I'm copied on every email David send the detective. They mostly go unanswered. Finally, after months of being ignored, David complains to the detective's supervior and as a reult, he got a call from the detective.

Rick: Okay, how are you? I'm okay. What's going on? can I ask you a question, your bureau? Sure. Yeah.

Det Hardina: What, what evidence do you have that I don't have that says it's I'm bleeping out John Gressman's real name. well, one was, uh, we were at the pizza place and we were all there

Rick: And we were, uh, speaking with officer Roberts and the orders for the pizza kept coming in. We were outside talking to the manager and the manager was getting notified from his workers that the orders were still coming in. And at that

Det Hardina: time, what evidence is that? That doing that?

Rick: Well, I'm getting to that.

Speaker: The manager, the manager, uh, went in there and said, oh, he, he, uh, he called an order. Usually he ordered by apps. He called an order in, and their system, the, caller ID kicked in saying it was . and he said, he called that the manager said I called the number right back. And he said, oh shit. And he hung up. That's that's a, okay. What number was that? By the way, the police report never stated anything about the caller ID displaying John Gressman's name. And the Papa Johns manager told me that they didn't even have a caller ID system in place during the time of those calls. The detective moves on to a new topic. Um, I spoke to the postal inspector, Uhhuh,

Det Hardina: And the question I have is. he told you he went to the house. Yes. When he never did. And then you started receiving text messages regarding his visit. You know what I talked to,

Rick: how did that happen? I talked to his, I talked to his supervisor David explains the the postal inspector visited the Gressman's house. He knows this because the stalker said so in one of his messages. The postal inspector, however, denies this. I said, I know. because was texting us, telling us that he was there. He did that. He saying he wasn't there.

Det Hardina: Excuse me. He told, he said he was not

Rick: there. I know, but his supervisor told me yes, he lied to me that he was there. So his supervisor told me that I know he lied to you about being there

Det Hardina: when he was never there.

Rick: No, no, no. Aaron. Uh, yes, his supervisor told me that he lied. When you said he was never there. So

Det Hardina: he's lying to me is what you're telling me. And he wrote a false report

Speaker: Yes, he is. He is lying to you then. And then he wrote

Det Hardina: inter official postal inspection duty activity report.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. That he perjured himself basically. And is risking his entire career to frame you,

Rick: you know what I've been with the post office for 30 years? Why would I dream up this grand scheme? If I, if I, I don't know. That's what I'm trying

Det Hardina: to get to the bottom of.

Speaker: But d in fait turns out the postal inspector did indeed visit the Gressman and lied about it to David. Here's a record call with the postal inspector's supervisor but detective inspector Bannon told me I lied. I didn't go over there. Both BS that's BS. I don't like being lied to,

Det Hardina: so yes, he did 50. They did talk to, uh, uh, uh, . Right. That's I can verify that. The detective is frustrated. He wants to know why James Gressman would do this.

Speaker: would he do this? Why would do this? He didn't even know you when you started seeing,

Rick: the night of the six hour stakeout at our house, the text he said, okay, I'll tell you why I'm doing this because my, my wife doesn't like you, he thinks your wife, he thinks is causing.

Speaker: Causing, problems with my, with my daughter. Cause my daughter was, my daughter was a patient 17, excuse me,

Det Hardina: July, 2017 is the first fake Grimsby. Instagram.

Rick: Okay. Okay. I got, I got, I wanna finish up the story that I was telling you here about the texting on the six hour, the night of the six hour shakeout.

Det Hardina: Okay. That the six hour stakeout is two years after this all started.

Speaker: So I'm trying to figure out why it started to begin with there's

Rick: a, there's a link here that I'm trying to get to you.Okay. You're not answering

Det Hardina: my question.

Rick: You're not waiting for me to explain something here. Cause I'm not, you're not

Det Hardina: in charge of this interview.

Speaker: I am. Okay. Okay. The detective is fed up. He's about reveal some information I wasn't aware of. And it's a bombshell. Keep in mind, I'm going to bleep out the user names he's about to list because it reveals Dr. Frace Gressman's So July 25th, 2017, Instagram account, Dr. I think Dr. Is created. September 6th, 2017, . One is created from your IP address. September 9th, 2017. Go-to guy is created from your IP address. July 26th, 2017. Is life was created from your IP address. September 5th, 2017. Be's vagina's life 1 0 1. Was created from your IP address? August 22nd, 2017, , sexy life was created from your IP address. Mm-hmm . So this all started in the fall of 2017. Why I can I, why I, I would like to speak to. My doctor didn't even have her first appointment with Dr.

Tanya: Until October or November of 2017. We were assigned. To Dr. By a pediatric nurse at CRS. I did not choose the doctor. It was either around October-ish. November around there.

Det Hardina: So I'm prior that Instagram is not, Instagram is not lying to me.

Speaker: So all this started before you even started seeing him? Yeah. Okay. So you started, okay. So why would , who had no idea who you are make all these fake Instagram accounts? I, no idea. I gotta, I gotta question. And how, how on God's green earth? Could he have done it? He didn't even know who you were.

Rick: I didn't even know who they. Okay, so

Det Hardina: question, no, you can't. I'm talking right now. Okay. Okay. Cause I'm looking at things that don't make sense. Yeah. Uhhuh. He had no idea who you were. You had no idea who he was. Right. But he had all these Instagram accounts occur from your IP address and they are all logged off two years

Rick: later.

Det Hardina: From your IP address, can I explain a different IP address? Can I explain that? Yes, please. Yeah, please do. Cause the FBI couldn't explain it, but I'm sure you can. Yeah. Yeah, I can.

Javier: I want to make sure you caught all of that. Not only were all the IP addresses coming from Caludia and David's house, they were created months before Claudia and David's daughter chelsea was even a patient of Dr. Gressman. I've been able to verify this with police reports. And I have to tell you, it made me sick to my stomach. I felt used. The detective is right... why would a doctor and her husband be obsessed with a patient they don't even have? David says he has a possible explaination for this. he worked for Cox. He has friends and Cox the cyber security expert said the problem with Cox's Cox's internet service is, you know, it's very fast, but he said, if anybody gets your account number a 12 year old could get inside that and operate everything in your house.

Rick: And that's exactly what he did. He was able to operate. And view us coming and going, using our exterior cameras. I've been told several times that gaining somebody's IP address is pretty easy

Det Hardina: to mimic your IP address to full Cox and Instagram to make it show that it came from your.

Speaker: But

Det Hardina: before he even knew you guys though, you're saying he did this, apparently, apparently you did. How

Tanya: I have no idea. We're not cybersecurity experts. I have no idea, but I have no reason to do.

Rick: Can I absolutely not. What about your

Det Hardina: daughter, No,

Rick: absolutely not. Was in, in a,

Tanya: um, psychiatric hospital

Rick: twice AC activity, no access to internet or, or indivi or personal devices when this activity was still going on.

Det Hardina: So you're alleging that before you knew him.

Speaker: And before he knew you before Dr. Knew you, that he was able to go in cahoots with another person who has knowledge, how to do this. Mm-hmm yes. And create all this, you know what, okay. Do you understand how that sounds? I didn't even meet Dr. Until, like I said, the fall of 2017. That was my daughter's first appointment. We did everything that Dr. Told us to do. And then she did surgery on her on January in January, 2018. That's it.

Det Hardina: okay.

Tanya: This has been a freaking nightmare. And I wanna see, yeah, I

Det Hardina: know it

Speaker: it's,

Tanya: it's ridiculous. When I, I get death threats about him wanting to go and blow my husband's head off, quite often and it rattles my nerves. I can't take it. I can't take this anymore. This is not right. and then I get accused of having a split personality and maybe you're doing it and you don't realize it.

Speaker: That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I do not have a split personality. I am not harming my

Rick: daughter. We are not

Det Hardina: crazy. We are not. What have you been diagnosed with? what mental, cause I see that you take medications. What have you, even, if you wanna tell me, you don't have to

Tanya: obviously extreme anxiety and depress.

Speaker: And PTSD from being shocked

Det Hardina: for three years and we are not okay. you know what? I have a handicap, two handicapped children, so, okay. Yeah. I, I have a very stressful life.

Speaker: Okay. I, I guess the thing I'm having a hard time getting over is how these things get created. I don't know, allegedly before any of, you know, who each other are.

Det Hardina: And this is before he even worked at Cox.

Tanya: Well, I don't know when he started working for Cox. I have no

Det Hardina: idea. No, it, the dates he occurred are before he worked at Cox.

Speaker: and he doesn't work for Cox anymore. We're just, we're telling you the truth.

Det Hardina: We are. Well, I am telling you, okay, this is what I'm telling you. Every search warrant I've ever done has led back to you guys until it went to apps. Okay. Mm-hmm mm-hmm .

Rick: That's all I'd have,

Det Hardina: but with the IP, and then you guys file complaints against Dr. , and then you file CPS reports against her that have been unfounded and the medical things have been unfounded.

Speaker: Um, when

Tanya: he, when, when texts us and says, he's gonna do something sexual to his daughter, I have a responsibility. I'm not even the one that called in the report.

Det Hardina: My counsel, have you ever thought that maybe someone's setting him.

Tanya: Uh, I don't know who would do that. It's not me. It's not

Rick: me. I got a question for you.

Speaker: the texter was texting saying my wife doesn't like you, because, because of the fact that she thinks that you're causing harm to your daughter, like Muha. And lunch times BYY and the very next day calendar day, you authored the report and she told you the exact same thing that the text told , how would anybody in my family know what she thought about my, my wife?

Det Hardina: Because you guys spoke, speak openly in front of your kids. And that's what the postal inspector also noted that you guys talk about everything and anything in front of your kids. So you guys could be talking about it and they overhear. What about

Speaker: whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How do then how do my kids and how do we know what the doctor felt? How the doctor felt about us so that we could relay that information to our kids. We, the text told us that, and there's no way in the hell. Anybody in my family would know how she felt about my wife. That is what you're telling me me.

Rick: Doesn't match up with, with reality.

Det Hardina: Uh, a lot of this doesn't match up with reality. I'm gonna be honest with

Rick: you, but what you're telling me doesn't either. And I mean,

Det Hardina: you're telling me that someone who doesn't know you, who has, who is spending basically four years of his life hacking, committing federal high federal crimes to hack modems and Cox mainframes to frame you guys to make it look.

Speaker: Five different IP addresses were used. Mm-hmm for these things to make it look like it came from you over a three year

Rick: period Next time on PRETEND, this was just the first few minutes of the call with the detective. Wait till you hear the rest of the call.

Speaker: Plus, I recruited an ethical hacker to see if he can find any dirt on all of the people involved with this case. With his help, we might be able to get new evidence on this stalker. That's next time on PRETEND.