The Stalker: Police Say They Found Who Was Sending the Messages, Part 22

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I know, we just started the Gypsy Rose series, and I promise we're gonna get back to it. A new episode's gonna drop on Tuesday. But there's been major breaking news on the Stalker case, and I just can't wait. If you're new to Pretend and you haven't heard the Stalker series, stop right here. Go listen to season 12 of Pretend. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Coincidentally, it's a Munchausen by proxy story with some similar threads to the Gypsy case. So if you don't wanna be spoiled, I suggest you press pause. Okay, now that we've cleared the room, three weeks ago at 6:30 in the morning, Peoria Police surrounded Tanya and Rick Fernandez's house. They had a search warrant. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Officers pulled the Fernandezes out of the house, told the neighbors to stay inside, and spent the next several hours going through every room and every device. I have the search warrant right in front of me right now. It names the Fernandezes by name, all of them They took the phones, the computers, the hard drives, the tablets, the cameras, even the game consoles. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And then they left, and nobody was arrested, which is when the rumors started, because at first people were telling me that the whole family had been hauled away in handcuffs, and that wasn't true. And then I had multiple people tell me that Rick was in custody. That wasn't true either. And for three weeks, I couldn't confirm a single thing, because there was nothing to confirm. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: No bookings, no charges, nada. Then last night, the other shoe dropped. One of the Fernandezes was arrested and booked in Maricopa County Jail on roughly 30 counts. 10 of them are felonies. And after four years of this family telling me that Dr. Gresman and her husband were tormenting them, after years of investigating and countless podcast episodes, police say that the person doing it was living in that house the whole time. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And today, we know who they arrested. I'm Javier Leva, and this is Pretend: stories about real people pretending to be someone else Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So I'm deep in the Gypsy series, head down, buried in medical records, and I'm not thinking about anything other than Gypsy. And then a source of mine sends me a message on Instagram. It's a mugshot of one of the Fernandezes. Now, my first thought is it's Tanya, obviously, right? Or maybe Rick, because that's where this whole thing has been pointing for years. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But it is neither of them. It's one of the kids. It's Shelbey, who you know from the show as Chelsea. And if you've been with me since Season 12, you already know that Shelbey is the disabled daughter. She's Dr. Gresmman's patient. She's the reason why these two families ever crossed paths in the first place. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: She is the entire reason I spent 23 episodes of this podcast trying to solve this mystery. And now the State of Arizona is saying that Shelbey is the stalker. Shelbey Danielle Fernandez, booked August 11th, arrested by Peoria Police Department, had her bond set at $5,000. And then I scrolled down to the charges. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Let me tell you, when I saw this, I couldn't sleep. In fact, I stayed up till 4:00 AM working on this. I went back through the hours and hours of tapes recorded with Tanya and Rick to see if now, in hindsight, if things would make sense. Back then, my opinion on who the stalker was changed on a daily basis. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Most days I thought it was Tanya. Some days I thought it was the oldest daughter, and then I thought it was the oldest son with the criminal record. And occasionally I thought it was Caleb, the disabled son, or Shelbey, the one at the center of this whole thing. But every single time I landed on Shelbey, I talked myself right back out of it because everybody around her told me the same thing. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That she can't, she doesn't have the capacity, she doesn't have the skills. She can barely manage her own day. So I went back and I started listening to some of the recordings I'd captured the last four years. Here's Tanya and Rick.

Rick Fernandez: This all started with her husband when Shelbey was frustrated and cried in the clinic when we took her, and the stalker mentioned that in, in his text. He said, "Well, you, you made your daughter cry in clinic."

Tanya Fernandez: She even said it, "I'm frustrated. I hate this."

Rick Fernandez: Yep.

Tanya Fernandez: You know, "I, I don't..." You know, and I'm like, "It's gonna be okay, Shelbey. It's gonna be okay." We're both trying to calm her down, but we were not the ones making her cry. And- She was frustrated.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: After we discovered that the messages were coming from inside the house, my number one suspect was Tanya, because she had the clearest motive. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: This doctor pissed her off, and now she wants revenge.

Tanya Fernandez: I'm going after the jugular with this one because it's not fair. And, um She owes me an apology. She owes Shelbey an apology. She really does. She devastated that kid.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But now, after all this happened, it's clear that the stalker knew information that only Shelbey and her parents could know.

Rick Fernandez: Shelbey was crying because of the stoma issues. During that six-hour stand out, he, the texter said, "My wife was pissed because your daughter was crying in clinic." And nobody knew that except for the doctor, the scribe, Shelbey, and me and Tanya.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And what complicates this even more is that Shelbey is an adult, 30 years old, but the State of Arizona decided that she can't make her own decisions. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: She can't even vote. And now that state is charging her as an adult with felonies.

Javier: You have guardianship over both of these children, right? Yep. Your children. Yes, we do.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Looking back, it's clear police always were weary of Shelbey, but they never formally charged her. We were told that she had the intelligence of a child. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: How could she possibly pull this off? One night, police were at the house taking a report, and while they were standing there in the living room, messages started to come in from the stalker on Tanya's phone, right in front of everyone. Here's Tanya.

Tanya Fernandez: They were right there watching those messages come through on my phone, and then encouraging me to interact with him, which I did. And Shelbey was up because she was afraid to go in her room by herself, so she was sitting in the other room, like I could see her, and, um, playing on her tablet.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: This is a clip of Tanya talking with the police.

Tanya Fernandez: She's also the person that Detective Benin interviewed. I... And, and they accused her, they blamed her, and she came out hysterical, crying. She has mental problems, okay? She has nothing to do with this. She was hospitalized on two separate occasions while this crap was going on, and she did not have any access to her phone, her tablet, nothing.

Peoria Police: We'd love to find that person that's doing it just as much as you guys would, and we'd fully charge them with it.

Tanya Fernandez: Right. Well-

Peoria Police: So that's where we're at, unfortunately. We can't... The only information we have, unfortunately, it says it's coming from the Fernandez house

Tanya Fernandez: Which blows my mind. And

Peoria Police: that- Which blow- Yeah ... it just blows my mind. Right. And I can understand your frustration. Um, you're saying, you know, it's not you guys are involved, and it's gotta be frustrating for you to know that it's not you and to have everything come back saying it's from your house. '

Tanya Fernandez: Cause, you know, the night, the night of the surveillance, um, Shelbey never left the living room. She never went and hid. She, she was s- terrified. She stayed within, within, uh, range of everybody.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Here's another call with Detective Anthony Hardina about a time Shelbey ran away, which at the time made me think that maybe she's not as developmentally behind as we were meant to believe. Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: Yeah, one of your daughters ran away from home, right?

Tanya Fernandez: No. N- nobody's

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: run away. She, like, snuck out?

Tanya Fernandez: One of them ran away?

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: Yeah, there's a report of it.

Tanya Fernandez: Oh, Shelbey, Shelbey went down to the park, like five houses down from our old house, and came back-

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: To meet someone, right?

Tanya Fernandez: Yeah, and scared, scared herself and came back.

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: Did you know that there was stuff on your pho- your daughter's phone that the, that the post inspector found that you...

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: I don't know if you guys are aware of it.

Tanya Fernandez: No.

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: Like app- apps and stuff, that she's talking to other people. Did you know that?

Rick Fernandez: She, sh- she had told me that, but she said that they were old, and she, like, used them may- maybe once or twice.

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: Oh, he, he said they were pretty recent, uh, recently deleted.

Rick Fernandez: Oh.

Speaker: Anthony Hardina,

Peoria Police Detective: I don't know if you're aware of that or not.

Tanya Fernandez: Shelbey, Shelbey didn't, sh- sh- Shelbey's not capable of doing this.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: My stalker series ended without a clear suspect. Tanya and Rick were indicted with six felonies, but we never really did get definitive proof of who was pressing send on those threatening messages, until now. When we come back from the break, we're going to hear from someone who had regular access to Shelbey. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And for the first time ever, you will hear from Shelbey herself

Javier: Hey, Javier.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Hey, hey. Can you hear me okay? Hey.

Javier: I can. I am currently at the dog park, so I hope

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: it's- Oh. ... not

Javier: too noisy or windy.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Well, this is- Uh, so a little bit of time ... this is, this is what happens, uh, during breaking news. It never happens when, when we want it, right?

Javier: I, I know. But-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Sienna messaged me a screenshot of Shelbey's mugshot. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That's how I found out. I was speechless. I immediately called her and started recording.

Javier: But I'm so glad that I'm able to finally talk to you. Like,

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: this is- Yeah ... actually

Javier: pretty cool.

Rick Fernandez: Well, you know, this has been the case with this

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: story where I've had to, you know, have a lot of patience and, and wait for things to happen. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. Right? Like, 'cause, you know, it took me two years to do the original series, and, uh, it was a lot of hurry up and wait. Wow.

Javier: So you've been... How long have you altogether been covering this, this story?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Oh my God, I don't even know. With the Fernandezes. Um, let's see. It's 2026.

Javier: This first started in 2017-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah

Javier: when the whole, you know, when they first got the encounters. Since two- Oh

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: my God, you're not gonna believe this. January of- Oh ... 2022 was my first.

Javier: Oh my... Wow. Okay, so it's been a long time coming.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. Holy crap.

Javier: Okay.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: All right.

Javier: Yeah. So so much- So tell me ... has been happening. Um, where to start? Where would you like to start?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I mean, start at the beginning, 'cause I knew... Neighbors had told me that there was a raid at their house, and at first it sounded like there was an arrest made, but later it came to be that it was just a raid, that they were searching their house. Because there was... I heard that there were some swatting incidents with the neighbors, but that's all I heard. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Right. And I put out a, a request for information and I have gotten nothing back, so I know nothing.

Javier: So you heard about the, the raid on the Fernandez's home or the neighbor's home?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Well, I don't know. Do- Tell me. Just start from the beginning.

Javier: So apparently this all happened on one day, th- as Shelbey told me. And I, it's hard r- now to find her as a reliable source for things that she has now told me. Um, but I guess last month, uh, it was during the Fourth of July, is when the stalker, uh, swatted, uh, her neighbor's home, an elder from a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall, and I believe it was Tanya's brother and his wife's home, in the middle of the night, um, with threats that he was going to harm her. Um, and then the Kingdom Hall threats, of course, that there was gonna be a shooting at Tanya's Kingdom Hall that they all went to. Um, and this kind of all happened around the same time, just this last month. And ha-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So that- And

Javier: you

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: only know about

Javier: this

Speaker: because Shelbey has been telling you about this?

Javier: this to me, and I felt like maybe she was my little undercover. Me thinking, "Okay, well, Tanya is obviously the one all behind this," you know? Because no one's really gonna look at Shelbey, be given her, her, her medical history, her, her mental capacity. Which talking to Shelbey, it's kind of hard to say, really what's true and what's not about what her mom has to say, w- how Shelbey is, that she has the mentality of a, a 12-year-old, I believe, that she's said. Uh, it's not really true, but I just... Well, maybe. You know, maybe it still is Tanya. Yeah. So she's been kind of giving me all this info about the stalker and what he's doing, what he's up to, what his, what her mother has told Shelbey what he's doing, you know? And yeah.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Remind me how you're related to the family

Javier: So I kind of got into the family through Blake Fernandez, which is the oldest son of, of Tanya and Rick. We were together for about almost three years, two and a half years. And, um, and I don't know how you, if you've been keeping up with, I don't know, him or- Yeah. I know

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: he's, he's back

Rick Fernandez: in jail, isn't

Javier: he? He's back in jail, unfortunately, for, uh, exploitative charges against children.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Blake Fernandez is Rick and Tanya's oldest son, and he's a registered sex offender in Arizona. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Back in 2014, he was convicted of attempted kidnapping and child abuse. The victim was 14 years old. He was 20. His adult probation officer confirmed that he will be on probation for that offense until the year 2095. And guess what? He's back in jail now because a grand jury indicted him on two new counts of sexual exploitation of a minor. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: He goes on trial September 3rd. Which means that right now two of Rick and Tanya's kids are sitting in the same Maricopa County Jail for two different things.

Javier: Which I had to find out through a police report that my mother had obtained, and she told me, you know, she's like, "You gotta see this." Because I had no idea my apartment that we both shared was actually, it was raided by, you know, with a search warrant for, uh- So- because of what he's been doing for the last couple years, I guess I did. I lived with him for about, yeah, two years.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Wow. And when, when you were with him, I mean, sorry that we're taking a little sidetrack, but I am curious

Javier: about him

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: too. No, no, no. When you were with him, did you know about the original sex offender charges?

Javier: I did. That was actually basically the first thing he told me when we met, um, because of course, uh, SOs do have obligations to tell people, of course, of their, their history. So he was very upfront. Um, as far as what exactly happened back in 2015, um, the incident with that minor, was not completely honest because I did find the p- police report of that incident and, um, it was not good. You know, as far as what the, the girl testified happening. Uh, he just... I, I mean, he was kind of on the f- the right path of what it, he did, but he just wasn't fully honest.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Right.

Javier: You know? Because people

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: always

Javier: try

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: to make- He wasn't completely

Javier: lying,

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: but Yeah.

Javier: People

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: always try to make themselves out to be-

Javier: To be like- Yeah the b- you know, the better person, which he, I, I felt like, okay, well, maybe he took accountability and he's, now he's trying to learn from his mistakes, but people can live very secretive lives. Of course, after being with him for a little while, I've noticed some true colors, um, the true side of him, unfortunately. Um, and so it did take him being arrested to, us to finally go our separate ways because I was of course not gonna support that. So

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: wait, wait, um, him being arrested the second time is what did the relationship in?

Javier: Yeah, so I, I knew of... We were kind of childhood friends. We grew up in the Jehovah's Witness religion, so of course, uh, we were, we kinda, you know, were in passing, and I knew of him, but I never really had a conversation with him, not up until a couple years ago. Um, and then in my, in that time in my life, too, with the religion, I mean, I don't know how much you know about it, but it is a pretty high-controlled cult organization. Um, so I was just trying to get away with, you know, get away from it and my mother and, 'cause I was living with her at the time. And so I guess I looked at Blake like he was my escape, and he felt the same way about his mother, which is not true, because I really feel like he is a humongous mama's boy, and he will rather be tethered to his mother. But he would- Especially now-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But he would

Javier: complain-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah ... to you about her?

Javier: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But now it's, "Oh, Mom, I need you and I love you," and, "Oh, I wanna be back in the truth," because we both left. We were, um, exonerated, disfellowshipped. So it's like you're cut off from the organization. And so... And he was very passionate about how he felt about it. I was, too. We were on the same page. And now, of course, with his mom still being a Witness, um, he is now trying to show his devotion again to God, which wasn't there before, but of course now he needs all the help he could get.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Wow. So you, you mentioned the second incident, the, the second arrest. The, when did that happen? Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah.

Javier: Second arrest happened April... Oh, wow, I have to look at my calendar. I wanna say 22nd. I

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: mean, I can look it up, too.

Javier: So-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But it happened this year, right?

Javier: Yes. And- So almost six months ago. Five months ago ... what was

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: all that about? Like, do you know the details?

Javier: Um, not exact details. I mean, when the detective came to our apartment and I was just, "What's going on?" And he was being taken into, you know, the custody van, and, and he just gave me the search warrant, and the charge was at the bottom. It was just a exploitation charge for, of minor, and I'm like, "I don't know. That could be anything."

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But this was while-

Javier: But I guess- ... you

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: two were together?

Javier: This was while we were together, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Like, and, and do you know who this person is? Is it, like, somebody that's close to his age or, or somebody much younger?

Javier: Um, it was... Yeah, it was a, a not good material. It was a child porn material. Oh, I see. So it was of, I believe... Yeah, it was of someone, I believe, under of eight years old.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Um- So he was looking at porn. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: It wasn't like he was, uh, in a physical relationship with a, with a minor?

Javier: No, it was online.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I gotcha.

Javier: It was a, it's a online CP charge. Oh, I see. Um, I guess that, and I believe he has about six counts, so there's been different instances where he has, I don't know, you know, whatever he was doing. But it's been, I don't know if they've been kinda tracking him for the last two years, but the, the original charge goes back to, I believe, 2024.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Wow.

Javier: Um, and I guess they've just been trying to get as much evidence so they can, you know, go ahead and, and, uh, indict him. Wow. Which a grand jury already did that, so,

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: It- He's

Javier: kind of already done.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: It's just amazing. I told you I started this in what, what was it? 2022 or whatever, and- Yeah ... like, just n- I don't know that family other than from my reporting, but it seemed like, you know, a Jehovah's Witness, salt of the earth, and now look at them. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Like, two of their kids are in jail.

Javier: Are in jail. That's kinda

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: wild.

Javier: And are both of them have the same charge, but Shayna Shelbey has a plethora of, I don't know if you... Yeah, from the screenshot I, I showed you. It's-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Okay. Yeah ... it's a- So- ... arms

Javier: length

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: All right. Let's talk about that. Okay. So you kinda gave me your history of how you're connected to the family, which is good, because it answered some of my questions about, about Blake. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Um-

Javier: Yeah ...

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: and, but here's what I don't understand. It's like, why would Shelbey be calling you and talking to you? Were, were, were they calls or were they text messages?

Javier: They were all through text and voice message, through SMS and Instagram mostly. And then when they were raided, you know, she had to get a burner phone or a prepaid phone to continue to be in communication with me. And then, uh, yeah, I actually messaged her today, and I'm like, "Hey, how's it going?" And you know, nothing. Wow. Um, I guess.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Okay. So y- you, you're dating Blake, but you form this relationship with Shelbey. When did that start? Like, when did she start confiding in you?

Javier: It actually didn't happen until after Blake was arrested. I haven't really ever had any por- uh, type of relationship with Shelbey since she's kind of been bound in that house and doesn't really have any friends. I guess, you know, I would try to reach out to her, but, you know, me being so involved with Blake and our, you know, our life and how chaotic that really was, um, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't until after he was arrested that she... or actually, I reached out, and I was just like, "Are you guys okay?" Like, "Are you okay?" You know, because the other siblings, um, have blocked me because of religious reasons, I guess. Their mother has gotten to them that they should not be communicating with me because I am a, uh, bad person, I guess. So the only person I got in contact with, Shelbey, and she was very forthcoming about everything, and I thought, I was like, "Wow, okay. Wow. So much information." And then it, it, that just, for the last couple months, yeah, that she's just been telling me things with the stalker, things with Blake, and with her mom, and just kinda keeping me in the loop of what's going on in that family. You know, what's going on behind the closed doors that no one can see.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But when she

Javier: talks to you- So I got this a few months- But when

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: she talks to you about the, the stalker, she's not telling you like, "I'm the stalker." She's playing along

Javier: with- No ... this whole thing, right? She's playing along with, "Well, the stalker told my mom," and it's, yeah, that's how they always address him, the stalker, which is weird. I just thought it was always so interesting when they would say the stalker. Like, what, what is the... Sounds like some kind of movie. Yeah. So she would never say me, of course, but yeah, I, it's just- Did you suspect- It's crazy ... did you

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: suspect that it could've been her?

Javier: Honestly, when I was listening to your podcast, there was a lot of like, "Maybe it is Shelbey." And then going through the comments of what everyone was thinking as well, I'm like, "I don't know. I really think it's Tonya." You know, c- could Shelbey really be... Would she be able to do any of these things, you know? But again, I don't know Shelbey. I don't really know her, so I can't really say that she could be capable of this or that.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That's true. I mean, you met her in real life, right? Yes.

Javier: Honestly A couple

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: times. But, so- Yeah, I've seen pictures of her ... do you know her enough to know whether she's, um, intelligent enough to pull something off like this? 'Cause that's the big question, right? Like, she has a severe mental disability. At, at least- Period Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: that's what we think, right? Because of- That's what

Javier: we think. That's what Tonya has said. Um, but I don't know. I haven't heard from her doctors or anyone to actually back this up that her mentality is of a child, you know. Because I've talked to her, and I mean, her... There's some in her grammar that might be a little off, but other than that she completely understands what she's saying and there's comprehension. So I'm like, "I don't know." Yeah. And so my mind kinda went back to, "Could it be her?"

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And, and y- you mentioned that you were corresponding with her. Did you say that there was also voice memos too?

Javier: Yeah. So through Instagram, like how I sent you the voice message.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Javier: It's just the easier way for us to kinda talk. And so she would send them to me too.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So it was definitely her- Um ... right? 'Cause like one thought that-

Javier: It was her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: One thought that crossed my mind was, you know, could this be Tonya, or-

Javier: Could it be Tonya? Right. Oh, most definitely. I thought that, and I... That's why I'm like sending voice mes- you know, messages and trying to get pictures and stuff like that, so I can, you know, prove that it's, I'm talking to her. Because, you know, it's- And

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: you sent me some of that stuff?

Javier: Yeah. I could. Oh my God. There's a lot, so I mean, I'd have to go through.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. You, please. Oh my God, you're blowing my freaking mind. I'm going to play you some of these messages. So while all of this is going on, Shelbey is recording voice memos and sending them to Sienna. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: She has no idea I have these voice memos. She's just talking to somebody that she trusts about what's happening inside the house, and she's doing it in real time, days after the police tore their place apart.

Shelbey Fernandez: So we got another pizza order. This is our second order that we got. And my mom is sending it to the detective, and my parents are talking. And my mom was like, "I kinda hope he messes with us," you know. But like, why are you hoping that he messes with you? Because in the past when he used to mess with us, she would get really annoyed, you know Also, shockingly, we got another unpaid pizza delivery like 10 minutes ago.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: If you listened to season 12, you know exactly what this is. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: The unpaid pizza deliveries that were one of the very first things that this family told me about four years ago. Somebody ordered food to the house, doesn't pay, and the driver shows up expecting money. It happened over and over again. And now it's still happening, even after the raid, even after Tanya and Rick were indicted, after police took every device in that house. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: The other thing in that clip is Tanya. Her daughter catches her saying she kind of hopes he messes with them, and Shelbey says it out loud that that's not how her mom used to react. It used to make her angry. Now she's hoping for it. Then in this next clip, Shelbey picks up the search warrant, the actual paper that the detectives left at her house.

Shelbey Fernandez: To make things easier, uh, I could just sh- show you the papers that the detective brought because there's a lot of information on the paper.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And she starts going through it on camera for Sienna, page by page.

Shelbey Fernandez: Uh, my camera sucks, so I'm gonna have to do it like this, but this is just a search warrant, um, that we got, and I'll zoom in a little and let you read it. But those are the charges that they found with our IP address.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And then she goes down the list, and I'm not going to read you the names because every person on that page is somebody that police believes was targeted. And it wasn't just the doctor and her husband. There were nine separate entities on that list, and they've been through enough without me putting them in a podcast. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But I'll tell you who they are to her. Two of them are her grandparents. One family lives down the street and goes to the same Kingdom Hall. Another is a next-door neighbor. Another is an elder at the congregation. Another is a woman and her friend. Every single one of them, according to Shelbey, has been swatted. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: There's one more thing on these tapes that I want you to hear. She's talking about how fast the family got some of their property back from the police, and she compares her family's situation to her brother's case.

Shelbey Fernandez: I mean, I'm not saying that what Blake did was, you know, not serious, but this is more serious because, you know, it's a religious crime. It's like a terrorist threat, you know? Plus child porn, so, like, it's kind of crazy how we're getting it back just two weeks later, you know? Go back to bed. Um So I do believe you about, you know, the whole stalking and, and your thoughts about who's doing it. But I hope that when you messaged the detective about your device, I hope that you didn't really bring up your thoughts about the whole stalking thing, considering that she's the same detective that's working on our case. The raiding really gave me really horrible PTSD. Like, I had a gun pointed at me when I woke up. I'm not the same because of that. I'm not the same. And I know that, like, if you were to tell her, I feel like a can of worms is gonna be opened. And honestly, like, I'm not trying to protect my parents, but, like, I'm just trying to, to protect my mental health. And they're going to find out eventually

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: You don't understand. I've been working on this- You have ... story for so long, and it just, it just ended, you know? And it didn't have any conclusion. And, like, not ... Look, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, right? Until proven guilty, yeah. Um, but look at those charges, okay? So we got- Look at the charges. I know. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So here, I, I'm gonna read it to you just so we could go through it. We got unlawful lewd electronic communication. Mm-hmm. Multiple counts of that, which is a misdemeanor. Yeah. But honestly, that is obvious what that is. It's, it's all these text messages, all this, this harassment. Right. Right? Right. We got threatening, intimidating electronic communication, which is, sounds like the same thing. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: There's multiple counts there, but a completely different charge. We got sexual- Okay ... exploitation of a minor, okay? This is a felony II. Yeah. And that is from m- Huge ... at first glance, remember, I have not even, like ... I just got this, but this looks like the most serious charge of them all. And so then we're thinking- It is, yeah Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: sexual exploitation of a minor. Mm-hmm. And then, and I'm thinking, well, that has to be related to the stalking because, I mean, a lot of my listeners didn't get to see the text messages, but they were really nasty, and nasty towards the doctor's baby. You know what I mean?

Javier: That part. And I've never seen them- Mm-hmm and I don't think I would want to. And just also, I thought it was very eerie the way that Tonya would say these things on your podcast.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Uh-huh.

Javier: Like, why did she actually have to speak on these text messages? They're so vile. You know, how could you even come to read that? Um, but now it makes me think of it in Shelbey. It's like, was sh- she, was she was writing these things? She's texting these-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. Yeah. You think? I think the, literally the jury is still out, right? Whether Tonya- Mm, yeah ... was responsible or not. But guess what? Tonya is not sitting in jail right now. Shelbey is. Right. So that means- Right ... when they raided that house, they found enough evidence to point to Shelbey, okay? Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Um- Right ... and if they're wrong, like, if these investigators are wrong, then the whole case goes out the window, right? Because they- Well, they- ... have to go in there with the goods, otherwise they don't have a case. But look, I'm only halfway- Exactly ... through listing the charges, right? I, I'm not even halfway through. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Not even ha- I'm, I'm a- ... I'm just on the third charge, right? And so- Yeah ... then you got false emergency reports, which that makes sense. Those are multiple felony 6 counts. Um- Yeah ... multiple f- now, uh, let's see So, so felony six, by the way, the way I understand it, it's like the h- i- it's kinda counterintuitive. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: The higher the felony, the lesser the, you know, the, the seriousness- The sentencing ... right? So, like- Very serious, yeah ... the fact that the sexual exploitation of a minor is a felony too, that's actually more serious than a felony six, right? So- Well,

Javier: yeah. In the state of Arizona, it's ... They don't mess around with child, you know, sex crimes, unfortunately. Yeah. So-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But a felony is a felony ... it's a mandatory

Javier: sentence

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I mean.

Javier: Right.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. And then you got stalking. That's ... That one's an obvious one. Then you got- Yeah ... fraudulent use of a credit card. That's a misdemeanor.

Javier: Yeah.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I'm not quite sure- Yeah ... what that has ... Maybe that's pizza related. I don't know.

Javier: So I'm thinking that or when I was with Blake, he I remember we were, uh, on our way to a baseball game, and he checked his phone. And it was a time that's, you know, when the stalker was really, I guess, at it or whatever, um, that he had gotten credit card charges, fraudulent charges from, from who he said was . That he's at it again. He's at ... You know, he's using my credit card and all this. So I think it might have been that, but that was a year or two ago.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I mean- So ... we're

Javier: gonna

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: find out soon. Um.

Javier: I know. Well, I would really like to know.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. So then, okay, now we're officially halfway through the list. Harassment- Mm-hmm ... by false report. That's multiple dis- uh, misdemeanor counts. You got identity theft. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That's a felony four, okay? Then you got- Yeah ... harassment by communication. Um, I mean, that ... These all seem ... Like, you know, you and I are not, like, law enforcement people, so they all seem to be talking about the same thing, but these are distinct charges. Um. Yeah. Threat, threatening intimidation, that's a misdemeanor. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That one's pretty on the nose. Um, all the messages were seem, said to be pretty threatening. Making- Right ... terrorist threats. That's two- That one. Yeah. That's two felony three counts, so that, that is also a very serious felony. And then, and to, to top it all, false emergency reports. Uh, and th- that's a felony- Mm-hmm Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: six. So-

Javier: Yeah ...

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I mean, that's a, that's a lot

Javier: And I don't know if that's it. They could always tack on more if they find more or through whatever. It's, so it's just what we have right now. But it's already more than it, it... for anybody. But if this is going back years, you know, that's what I'm saying. You know, what else are they gonna tack on there? You know?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So here are some questions, and obviously you and I are not qualified to answer these questions, but I'm sure that everybody's thinking it, right? So if- Mm-hmm ... if she doesn't ha- Like, Tanya and Rick have guardianship over her, right? So- Correct. Correct ... can she, I don't know. Like, what does that do in court? Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: You know, like, I don't know. The, the, it just complicates everything, right?

Javier: Mmm, does it? I

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: guess I don't know. I have no idea I,

Javier: I mean, if she's an adult though, I mean- She's an adult.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I don't know.

Javier: I- But I've, I can say to the test- that, you know, to testify that Shelbey is, doesn't need guardianship. She's fully capable of doing all the things that any independent adult could do themselves. So that might also be thrown into question where Tanya could now be, you know, coming forward there by police to say, you know, why I don't think this qualifies as she really needs any kind of guardianship because it seems like she's capable. So that's a good question. I thought about that. I'm like, "Oh yeah, they have guardianship," or at least Tanya does, so-

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Wow ...

Javier: I don't know.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Well, you, yeah, you have officially blown my mind. And obviously-

Javier: And that was what I was thinking. Wow. Like, Javi was gonna love this.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Well, you know what? I, I don't even know when you messaged me. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I don't know if you know what I've been up to lately, but I've been working on this, uh, Gypsy Rose Blanchard series for- Yes ... Are you aware of this? Yes. Yeah. So- Yeah, '

Javier: cause I'm, I've, I see it on Instagram. I'm like, "Oh, he's gonna cover that also."

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah. Well, I'm like knee-deep into that, and I haven't been checking my messages 'cause I'm getting bombarded with just a bunch of crap online. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And so, like your- Right ... your message got lost. I just happened to see it, so-

Javier: Well, thank God.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: That's crazy.

Javier: Yeah. And I'm like, it's happened just today, so gotta call.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: All right. Well, hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Javier: Of course. All right. Javier, thank you for speaking to me.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: All right, take care. Have a good- All right Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: rest of your day Have a good night. Bye. You too. Bye. All right, so I know I just threw a lot at you, but a lot just happened all at once. This is a developing story, and I will continue reporting on it. In fact, I'm gonna post some of the documents on Patreon, and you can listen to bonus content on Apple Podcasts, Pretend Plus, so stay tuned there. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I want to keep the next few episodes Gypsy-centric 'cause there's a lot to get through. Um, if you want to hear the early Gypsy episodes, they're gonna be on Patreon and Pretend Plus on Apple Podcasts. There's a lot cooking. I even have a LaDonna update, although it pales in comparison to, to this episode. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But it's still, it's still interesting and noteworthy. I will be putting the LaDonna update on Patreon and Apple Podcasts as well. So if you want the latest, that's where it's gonna be. If anything major happens, you will hear it on this feed first. But for now, let's try to keep the Gypsy train rolling because we're just getting started with that. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: All right, everyone, take care. Hope to talk to you soon