The Stalker: Shelbey Fernandez Speaks, Part 23

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I don't know about you, but I can't stop thinking about the stalker case. Police say that Shelby Fernandez is the person who was doing all of it, and it blew my mind. Not because I never considered her. I did. But I considered everybody.

Shelbey Fernandez: When they raided our house, um, they didn't really touch my parents' bedroom. You know? They trashed my bedroom and they trashed Caleb's bedroom, but they didn't really touch my parents' bedroom. When we got raided, it was kinda weird because, you know, we all just went outside and they didn't pat us down.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Today we're gonna hear it directly from Shelby.

Shelbey Fernandez: I get really bored without my devices, and I kinda have to hide this prepaid phone, you know, because I got it out of secrecy.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: It's like watching The Sixth Sense and getting to the end and finding out that Bruce Willis was dead the whole time, and then immediately going back to the beginning and watching the whole thing. Because now every single scene means something different. Sometimes people think that she's non-verbal. Yeah, they do. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But she is very verbal when, when she's around you guys. So I never really considered Shelby. But if you think about Shelby in isolation -- I mean- Uh- ... who else would know all these intimate details about the medical visits? You know, when you thought it was the security captain. I mean, Shelby was there the whole time.

Tanya Fernandez: She was sleeping. She was knocked out on meds. She was not even coherent. She was not even coherent. She had just come out of surgery, so she was unaware of what was being said and what was, what was happening.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But, but we know that everybody's always listening and everybody hears things. And that's what I've been doing all week. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I've been re-listening to four years of interviews with Tanya and Rick, and I'm hearing all of it in a new light. Here's one thing I cannot grapple with, is why does the stalker only mention Shelby and not any of the other kids?

Tanya Fernandez: I don't know. I don't know, but I'm thinking it's just because Shelby is the patient of Dr.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Maybe. A lot of my listeners thought that Tanya Fernandez was orchestrating the whole thing herself for attention. They didn't find her believable, and the thing they kept saying was, "Why would someone in real danger call a podcaster?"

Tanya Fernandez: So okay, so Rick and I wanna know why you're moving forward with the podcast. Like, what is the spin of the podcast? Is it- Oh,

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: no, I don't even know what... That's a great question, is how does this thing end? I have no idea.

Rick Fernandez: It sounds like it's gonna be a, it sounds like it's gonna be a good podcast because- Yeah ... a good series because it's gonna be like the classic who- whodunit.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But what if Tanya wasn't making any of it up? Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: What if she was really being terrorized?

Tanya Fernandez: This guy put a threat out to our home, and he said, "I'm in your neighborhood, and I'm gonna kill your family. I'm gonna kill you." It's ridiculous. When I, I get death threats about him wanting to go and blow my hus- husband's head off quite often, and it rattles my nerves. I can't take it. I can't take this anymore. This is not right. And then I get accused by Peoria Police of having a split personality, and maybe you're doing it and you don't realize it? That's ridiculous. Well, we know that he was on our property because he took a picture. This was, like, a year and a half ago. He took a picture of what you would see from our front yard

Javier: of- And I know, I know it was the day that he said it was because it had rained the, the night before. And there was puddles. And there was water in the gutter. And it doesn't rain here much. No.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: They were right. The stalker was on their property. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Police say the stalker was living in their house. So here's what we're doing today. I'm gonna take you back through Shelby's surgeries, and there were a lot of them, and I'm also gonna revisit the accusations that this whole thing was a Munchausen by proxy case, and we're gonna listen to what Tanya said when I asked her about it. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Plus, there's new audio from Shelby recorded a few weeks ago before her arrest. I'm Javier Leva, and this is Pretend, stories about real people pretending to be someone else. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: For two years, I talked to the family constantly. Day, night, weekends, it didn't matter. Here's a voicemail Tanya left me in the wee hours of the morning.

Tanya Fernandez: Hey, Javier. It's Tanya Fernandez. It's Thursday, like, around 4:45 our time. I just wanted to touch base with you and let you know that I did reach out to Peoria Police Department today, and it did not go well. I was treated horribly, and, um, I just wanna talk to you about it. It was awful.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: You know, I've wondered a lot about why Tanya and Rick confided in me the way they did, and I think it's because nobody else was listening. They told me the police weren't taking them seriously, so they called me instead, and I picked up. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: My motivation was pure curiosity. I could not believe a harassment campaign would go on for this long, and it went on for years. At first, the threats seemed almost silly, but they kept getting more vicious. Rick told me that he thought he was being followed at work. Tanya said that the hospital had been threatened. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: The family ended up moving, and for a while, it all stopped, but then it started up again, and when it came back, the messages were worse than before. By then, the doctor and her husband in real life had a baby, and the messages started being about that baby.

Tanya Fernandez: R. Soccer, um, had made comments about his infant daughter. Uh, he wasn't very happy with having a, a girl. He wanted to lock her in her crib, and he used some derogatory language towards the baby, and that... It's just all very, very disturbing.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: One of them read, and I'm quoting, "Honestly, feel like grabbing this stupid ass clingy child by the neck. I just hate being a parent, period. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Maybe if it was a boy, I'd be more compassionate," end quote. That's the version I could record on the podcast. There was so much more material about this little girl that I'm not gonna even describe to you. Every message was hyper-focused on sex, hyper-focused on sex with the doctor, someone hyper-focused on killing his wife, which is unbelievably frightening. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Other messages were just plain crude, aggressive, juvenile. And I gotta warn you, this next section, you've heard it before, has a lot of profanity, so if you have little ones in the room or mixed company, switch to headphones now "

Tanya Fernandez: I'll find out where you bigots live, so watch out. Take a fucking golf club to your ugly ass husband's face while he's at work not looking."

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: But now, knowing that it could be Shelby behind the keyboard, it blows my mind. "

Tanya Fernandez: I know you fuckers did this shit. About ready to take a rifle to your fuckers' heads, and maybe a golf club. Don't fucking mess with us." I really hate saying those words, but that's what he said. "Duct tape his mouth, drag him down, and fucking beat the shit out of him. Burn his buddy- body, and cut off his scrotum. Cut off his scrotum and feed it to my daughter. I want to fuck your tard daughter. Oh, wait, she might cry. Answer me, bigot." And then I blocked him, and that was at 10:42. That rant was an hour long.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Wow. If this was Shelby typing, was she talking about herself?

Shelbey Fernandez: Regarding the stalker, no, we've never met him. We don't even know what he sounds like. They're going to find out eventually, but, like, you know, I kind of want our thoughts to be just between us, you know? And when they do find out who's doing it, you know, I'll definitely let you know.

Tanya Fernandez: He threatened to hack into my Instagram and embarrass me by putting child porn... That's what it is, child porn. It's criminal, and I'm scared.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: At one point, I started messaging the stalker directly, and I have to ask myself now, "Was I talking to Shelby this whole time?" I wrote, "I would like to know why you're messaging the Fernandez family." And one minute later I got a reply. "Because I fucking can." Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I said, "So what's your next move?" The stalker replied, "Stop texting me before I send this to our lawyer." I asked, "Would you be open to talking with me?" The stalker wrote, "Sure, I'd love to get my story out." So I called the number, but nobody picked up. I asked why, and I got back, "Why don't you just leave me alone?" Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I wrote back, "I thought you wanted to talk." And that's when it turned because I started getting called a pussy, and I'm going to slash you with a golf club, and you're a dumb tard, an asshead, and so on, and so on. And then nothing. Even after I ended the series, Shelby kept reaching out to me using her real email. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: One email from 2024 said, quote, "Hi, Javier. This is Shelby. I'm just venting because I'm having a really hard time mentally. I need you to promise me that you're going to keep this email anonymous. Like, don't make a podcast about it. So I got into a huge argument today with my parents and need someone other than my own family to talk to. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I'm just very frustrated. You'd think with a parent having guardianship over you that they'd be a little bit more sympathetic, but sometimes it's just like living with Mommy Dearest. I know that this is a random email, but I don't have any friends to vent to other than, quote, 'spiritual brothers and sisters' who think my parents are always loving." Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: End quote. Shelby left me her number. I responded to her email. I even called her and left a message. Nothing. Here's Sienna, who had been communicating with Shelby right before the raid.

Sienna Galindo: You know, if I remember correctly, I think Tanya found out about Sh- uh, Shelby reaching out to you, and she was not very happy, so that's probably why she no longer responded to you. But I think it might have been a cry for help. You know, she was... She didn't have anyone to turn to. I feel bad, but to resort to this is, is, is, is crazy. But the hold that Tanya has on all those kids is a lot stronger than any of us can think, you know, 'cause we're not in that house day to day. We don't know what's really going on and how Tanya truly acts towards those around her.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: When we come back from the break, we'll go over some more tape. This time, let's take a look at Shelby's medical past to explore the dynamics between her and her parents. That's after the break

Tanya Fernandez: Yeah. So, I mean, we've got some heavy duty stuff here

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: This is a call where Tonya was explaining her kid's medical complications

Tanya Fernandez: With, you know, Shelby's got a shunt in her brain from a misdiagnosis when she was an infant. They didn't diagnose her correctly, and so by the time they figured out what was wrong with her, it, she had irreversible brain damage.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: A brain shunt is a tube surgically inserted in the head in order to drain out fluid.

Tanya Fernandez: So she's had several shunt revisions. She's had two spinal detetherings. She has to be watched. Plus she has a pain problem that developed in 2005, and we've never been able to get it resolved. It's a weird syndrome

Rick Fernandez: Central body syndrome

Tanya Fernandez: It's called central nervous, central pain syndrome, central nervous pain syndrome or-

Rick Fernandez: She's been very har- hard to treat by most doctors. They, they're... It's a lot of guesswork, and she gets sent home still in pain, and they say it's psychological

Tanya Fernandez: But it's clearly not psychological. It's her brain, like, misfiring pain signals to the scars on her body. It's been hard. Like, 2018 was horrible. She had a detethering. She had the stoma surgery first by doctor you know who.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Dr. You Know Who is Dr. Gresman.

Tanya Fernandez: And then, and then she had a very serious infection from that, and then the neurosurgeon said that the, that surgery should have never been done in the first place, that the doctor should have referred her to neurosurgery first.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Remember, Shelby was not a child. At the time of her surgery, she was in her 20s

Tanya Fernandez: Um, they had to teach her how to walk again because she lost feeling from the knees down, and- We were there for a month we were there for a whole month getting her strong enough to learn how to walk again. That kid's been through so much, and it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. And I'm gonna go on a rant, but I take offense to Dr. You-know-who ever suggesting that I'm bringing harm to my kid and putting her through unnecessary medical procedures. That really makes me angry. She has no clue what we've been through with her, no clue whatsoever. So to say that to the police really upsets me 'cause that is s- the farthest thing from the truth. Nobody in their right mind would put their kid through unnecessary surgical procedures.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And that's exactly what Dr. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Gresmman has accused Tanya of. Dr. Gresmman told police that the Fernandez family enjoys bringing in their daughter, Shelby, for treatment. Even her staff noticed the unusual behavior, noting that something was odd about that family. The doctor added that Tanya milks Shelby's illness for attention, and her behavior, she describes, as Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

Javier: You two have been through a lot with all of your kids, and I guess from, from a distance, if you're just looking at a chart

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: or, or just not intimately involved, it does seem like a lot of procedures. But you're going through a lot of trial and error at the same time, too. But I could totally see how somebody could look at all this and say, "Wow. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Yeah, Munchausen by proxy." I could see how they could jump to that conclusion.

Tanya Fernandez: Possibly, maybe, but if your child needs to see the neurosurgeon, then you take your kid to the neurosurgeon. If your daughter cannot urinate and she cannot void, then you have to take your child to the doctor that can remedy that. I have no choice. What if I didn't take her back to Dr. You-know-who and her bladder exploded? Then what? I'm liable for that.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: As a parent, I sympathize with that, but I could also see from a distance if somebody puts it all together, they're like, "Oh, wait. T- Tanya and Rick, you know, they're, they might be going overboard."

Tanya Fernandez: Yeah. You know what? So Shelby was in and out of, of hospitals from about 2000, the fall of 2005 all the way up until about 2012. It was like a revolving door. We were taking her to Dr. You-know-who's office monthly practically because we were having major complications.

Rick Fernandez: And Javier, what I, what I, um, read into this, too, is- The, is she I think mentioned this in the police report, that it was unusual for a patient to be seen that often. So I think Shelby's complexity frustrated her, where she was, she's used to doing patients that heal up and they're gone.

Tanya Fernandez: Um, and we've had guardianship of both kids since they were 18. Yeah. So it's hard because we're responsible for their wellbeing, and we're responsible for Shelby and her medical stuff. And so I have to just keep an eye on, like, where her shunt is, if there's any red lines running down her neck, you know, that, that means that the line's infected.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Tanya insists that Shelby's brain shunt surgery was necessary. Now let's hear it from Shelby's perspective. These voice memos were sent to Sienna, her brother Blake's ex-fiancée.

Shelbey Fernandez: I've been sheltered all of my life. Like, I don't know how to drive. I don't have I don't have a job. I've never traveled alone, you know? It's kind of embarrassing. That's kinda, it's kinda why I feel stuck. Like I don't, I feel like I have no hope and, you know, because I've been sheltered all my life.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Remember, this is a girl who has no rights. The courts assigned that to her parents.

Shelbey Fernandez: We've been sheltered, all of us kids.

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: And now she's the one accused. And I don't know about you, but I'm in the middle of the Gypsy Rose series right now, and I cannot stop seeing the overlap. Two girls, two mothers who spoke for them, two long complicated medical histories, and two daughters who lashed out at the people that they saw as their captor.

Shelbey Fernandez: But yeah, like, I don't know. I was just thinking about it yesterday and about how sad, how like sad how sheltered I am, how sheltered everyone in this house is besides my parents, you know?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: Then Shelby goes out to the garage.

Sienna Galindo: Um, my parents are in the living room and I'm eating

Shelbey Fernandez: in the living room, so I can't really talk. But yeah, I do feel trapped. Um, we, my mom had a meeting today with, um, my insurance company. She's trying to get me to get my insurance back that they stripped away from me and it really pissed me off. She's telling them all these lies about me, like how she helps me with everything, how she helps me with my dressing, my toilet lighting, everything. Well, I'm sitting right there and I can't get up because I'm forced to sit right there. So yeah, I do feel trapped. Um, I mean, I would love to like be out of the house, but like, um, I, I'm, I wouldn't mind living with your mom, but you know, I'm a I just, I, I think that it's just the religion stance, you know? Like me not believing in what she believes in, and I don't want that to like cause a problem, you know?

Speaker: Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I reached out to Tanya and Rick. I asked them whether they'd met with Shelby's insurance company, how did they describe her daily needs to the insurer, and whether Shelby really needs help with dressing and using the bathroom. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I'm waiting for their response. If I hear back from them, I'll let you know. I wasn't in that meeting with the insurer. I don't have a recording of it. I don't have the paperwork. What I have is Shelby's account, and Shelby is currently charged with multiple felonies. And if the state is right about her, she's kind of an unreliable narrator. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: The question I keep asking myself is whether Tanya and Rick were involved in any of this, and honestly, I have no idea. What I can tell you is that police arrested Shelby and nobody else. But this new audio paints a more vivid picture. A 30-year-old woman who can't leave the room she's sitting in. So maybe Tanya wasn't behind the harassment, but there's other things. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: In 2019, the doctor told police that she thought that she was seeing a Munchausen by proxy case. So here's what we know. The shunt is real, so is the brain damage, and Tanya told me that a neurosurgeon looked at those surgeries and said that it never should have been done in the first place. Her parents have guardianship over her since she was 18 years old. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: So when the insurance company needs to hear about Shelby's condition, they don't hear from Shelby, they hear it from Tanya. And Shelby says that what her mother told the insurer was not true. Now, to be fair, Tanya Fernandez has never been charged with abusing her daughter or insurance fraud, and when I asked her about Munchausen by proxy, she forcefully denied it. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: I don't know if this part of the story will ever be resolved. And as of this recording, Chubby is no longer listed in the Maricopa County Jail system. So it looks like she might have bonded out, and she's awaiting her next court date. I'm assuming she's back home with her parents, the people that she says she feels trapped by. Javier Leiva, Host of the PRETEND Podcast: A lot could change between now and then, and as always, I will keep you posted. On the next bonus episode of The Stalker, we're gonna take a closer look at Blake, the oldest son, and his criminal record, because inside those files is a confession. That's next time on Pretend.