Who's Afraid of LaDonna Humphrey part 8

Speaker: s Received yesterday at 5 34 PM message from phone number. Hi, I'm trying to reach someone in leadership there at your church, um, regarding a pending litigation, against Tony and Rachel Cobb. Both in Arkansas and in your state that will be taking place due to slander. There's one thing to be said about LaDonna Humphrey, and that's that she rarely forgives and she never forgets. This is a voicemail from February 2020. LaDonna somehow figured out that Rachel Allen, Pastor John Allen's daughter, moved to Florida and was working at her husband's church down there. Um, I will try to try and to get ahold of somebody and, um, I would appreciate it if you could give me a call back. Um, I would like to talk to you a little bit about the situation and what is going on with Rachel Cobb and a little bit about, we know about her here in Arkansas and, um, how this might impact your church. You can hear Rachel in the background playing this voicemail and sobbing I'd also check out. The things that she's saying and doing on social media. Um, just not really sure that that's the behavior of a church leadership. It's no secret that the Allen family blames LaDonna for their house fire. And for Pastor John Allen ultimately being charged for arson. It's also the Allen family that helped Anthony Christopher connect the dots between victims. So, when Rachel Allen showed up at court, and the judge sentenced LaDonna to 10 days in jail, um, Rachel Allen became a target. Rachel says that her church received hundreds of voicemails and hundreds of emails over a three day period. Again, this voicemail was recorded 17 years after she was fired from Lake Hills Baptist Church, and four years after LaDonna smeared John Allen's name in an interview with arson investigators audioMargoElston11180617643: LaDonna and Rachel still had of a relationship, maybe not a good one. this is Margo Elston. audioMargoElston11180617643: I just know that LaDonna was Rachel, she went as far as, to call, this church, in Florida and, all these accusations, bringing, bringing up the Lake Hills thing about the church, trying to completely defame them after years of, of not any contact with them either. So why would she do that? Margo Elston is possibly one of the most intriguing interviews you will hear in this entire series. Why? Because she's known LaDonna her entire life. She knows her in ways that most people don't. Margo Elston is LaDonna's sister. audioMargoElston11180617643: You know, she, she, she clings on to things and continues to harass people under, I guess, behind a screen. For a long time. Why does she do it? I don't know. don't know. But she does it. I mean, all of these people can't have similar stories and it not be, have truth in it. audioMargoElston11180617643: I've known this woman my entire life and that's that's why I'm speaking up. I just feel like she should be stopped. It is, it is. It's shocking that I'm doing it to another family member. I'm coming out talking about another family member, but I haven't talked to her in seven years probably. I know how she works. I know how she's treated my parents. I know how she's treated me and my other sister. I just, I want her to stop. Today on Pretend, Margo shares her story and explains why she considers her family to be LaDonna's first victims. I'm Javier Leyva and this is Pretend. Stories about real people pretending to be someone else. audioMargoElston11180617643: my parents have three daughters LaDonna's the oldest. I'm 15 years younger than her. So that's quite a, a big age gap. And then I'm 10 years younger than my other sister. I mean, LaDonna was kind of like, it's, it was kind of like growing up with an aunt instead of a sister. Cause it, the age gap was so big, audioJavierLeiva21180617643: I know she was almost like an aunt to you, but did you guys have a good relationship growing up? audioMargoElston11180617643: we did, did have a good relationship. Um, I think LaDonna and my mom, they always had issues, or I'd rather say LaDonna always had issues with my mom. when I spent time with LaDonna, she would complain a lot about my mom and, and blame my mom for a lot of things. During her appearance on the Silver Linings Handbook podcast, LaDonna shared that she's no longer in contact with her family. Let's play a clip.

Ladonna Humphrey: Let's buckle up because have I got a story for you? I, I grew up in Southwest, Oklahoma, really small farming community, and I was actually born into a sect.

Speaker: So, you know, I, I don't use the word cult. But I do use the word sect because I do believe that, um, there was a lot of indoctrination there, um, and was really just unhappy growing up in this small town. Um, not anything to do there as you can imagine. And when we had the opportunity as a family to move, we moved to Arkansas, I believe it was my seventh grade year. I'm estranged from my biological family, from my parents and my sisters by my choice. Here's her sister Margo again. audioMargoElston11180617643: You know, throughout the years, my mom would always be like, you know what? I, I don't know why you hate me so much. Let's, let's talk about this. Why are you upset with me? What is going on? And she never would, she never would talk with my mom. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: what was going on? Like, I mean, there had to be something, right? audioMargoElston11180617643: I've talked to other people who know LaDonna and she always tells other people that, know, my mom's crazy. I don't talk to her. There, there isn't specific thing. Like I said, my mom would always try to ask her she was so upset. Why was she always so hateful? Why was she always, you know, making plans and then not showing up or keeping her grandkids from her and all of that. And there, not a reason. You know, my mom's not perfect, but I think my mom did a good job on us. Well, Yeah. on by the way, Margot is the only person in LaDonna's family who has spoken to me. Her mother, her father, and other sister declined to be interviewed for this podcast. audioMargoElston11180617643: So I've recently told my mom who you were and, and she does know that there's a podcast happening. Um, she doesn't, she doesn't want to be involved. My parents don't want to be involved at all. Either one of them It's, you know, they're in their seventies now and they just, well, think of it this way. If you had a kid, would you, would you do that? It'd be really hard to audioJavierLeiva21180617643: no audioMargoElston11180617643: of the relationship, there's no, there's no family relationship that's perfect, but a mother doing that, that has to be one of the hardest things, you know, audioJavierLeiva21180617643: yeah, and I guess a lot of people are gonna ask and why are you speaking out, you know? Cuz it like I wouldn't speak out about my brother. It would have to be some crazy stuff for me to speak out audioMargoElston11180617643: well, there is some crazy stuff. Crazy stuff indeed. You know, I've been going back and forth about publishing this next part of the story. Why? Because it is by far the most far fetched And most deranged accusation yet. And I have no way of proving it ever happened. I don't have secret audio files, screenshots, or court files. All I have is Margot's story. It might not even be real, but it's real to Margot. And Margot's story is consistent with the other documented stories of harassment. So I just can't ignore it. So take this next section with a grain of salt, but I simply just couldn't ignore it. Margot never intended to tell me this story, it just came out. And for a long time, she didn't even want me to include it. But she's changed her mind, Because she feels that it will allow other possible victims to come forward with their own story MargoElston11221870337: I didn't really want everyone knowing, but I'm going to tell you. So, um, I had some pretty traumatic things happen to me when I lived in Fort Smith. I, I had a house there and, uh, these two men came in and they were robbing the house and they actually took me and my then three year old son out of the house and this guy, uh, beat me up. I was raped repetitively. JavierLeiva21221870337: oh my god, MargoElston11221870337: We're talking for a three to four day thing. This is not just a few hours. This is three to four days that I spent with these people, I didn't know who to turn to. I didn't know what to do as far as. aftercare mentally, you know, and I turned to the wrong things. I was drinking, I was using some drugs Um, so I decided I, Probably should get treatment MargoElston11221870337: Well, prior to me actually getting treatment, I'm in this hotel in Fort Smith and I'm alone. and, um, I started getting messages. Back to back all day long, different numbers every day, hundreds and hundreds of messages. You are a terrible mother. Um, you're a, you know, piece of crap. The world would be better without you. You should just kill yourself. Have you, have you decided to kill yourself yet? You could do it this way. You could do it that way. Have you done it yet? When are you going to do it? I mean, nonstop. And I was going to do it. I was going to do it. I believed that the world would just be. I mean, I was at the lowest point in my life Margo says that she was by herself, with no one knowing where she was, and her son Cash was staying with her parents MargoElston11221870337: I was in the lowest point of my life, especially with what I had went through. so it, it became so overwhelming to me. I, I decided that I didn't want to live anymore, that cash would be better off without, you know, and, uh, I just kept thinking about how, you know, this, this, Terrible thing had happened and all I did was make it worse on myself by, you know, creating a substance abuse issue. And so, um, I tried to kill myself and I woke up the next day. I woke up the next day. I had drank a lot. I had taken a lot of pills. Um, and I woke up the next morning and the only, Person I had texted back was this number that I still did not know who it was and, that next day when I woke up, later on, LaDonna shows up at that hotel room. I didn't even tell her what room I was in or anything. She knew where I was. She, it was just a very strange, JavierLeiva21221870337: nobody knew you were at this hotel except for, MargoElston11221870337: except, except for the person I was texting on the phone. Wait, it was an unknown number. I started conversating with this person and, uh, I was just, I don't know how to explain it. I was at a really low point and before I had tried, I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. This is what I'm going to do. You know, my family's going to find me here at this hotel. I didn't say what room number, but I mean, my car was right in front of the room. Again, I'm not saying LaDonna is responsible for sending these anonymous messages to Margo. I'm not even claiming this happened the way Margo remembers it. Keep in mind, Margo was at her lowest. She admits that she had a substance abuse problem. Her recollection of this event is a little shaky at best. I don't know if I can get myself to believe with a hundred percent certainty that LaDonna would be capable of this, but I do believe Margo when she tells me that she was chatting with someone. MargoElston11221870337: I don't have proof of it, nothing, but I can tell you this. You know, once I was in a clear state of mind, I was thinking about, you know, what words were said to me and, and just the, the context of all the messages. And it was similar writing that I would get, I've been getting unknown messages or messages from unknown numbers, probably since I was 18. I mean, off and on my whole life and, JavierLeiva21221870337: but this number was different because this number seemed to know a lot about you, right? MargoElston11221870337: Right. They, and they knew what had happened. They knew, they knew that I had some issues with, you know, substances. They knew about the rape. They knew, I guess I would just, I should have known then that, hey, there can only be a number of people who know this. But like, like I said, I was in the lowest point of my life. I just, I, that's not where my mind was at. I wasn't worried about that at that time. JavierLeiva21221870337: So let's say this was LaDonna. Why would your sister do this to you? MargoElston11221870337: Well, I didn't know at the time, but she was newly with Danny at this point. Danny is LaDonna's current and second husband. MargoElston11221870337: so she could not have kids anymore and she wanted a kid with Danny Let's play another clip from the Silver Linings Handbook podcast. Here LaDonna talks about her marriages And the birth of her biological kids

Ladonna Humphrey: You know, I was young. I'd fallen in love with who turned out to be my first husband.

Speaker: I've, I've been married twice. I'm married to my second husband. And, um, you know, fell in love, you're young and we got married probably too young and, you know, about three or four years into that marriage, um, we had not planned on having kids, but as the way it turned out, I ended up pregnant and that really does change your world. And, you know, once that child was born, of course, I'm a fully dedicated mom and was in love again with, you know, with this child. And then a couple of years later I had another one. And so, you know, you just. Have these series of events that happen that I don't regret like that's an amazing part of my life My kids are the best part of me and it just it took me away from that initial goal And I don't think that's a bad thing. It just it was different than what I had anticipated when my first marriage fell apart, my first love and I reunited and he also grew up in that church and that sect. And so he moved to Arkansas and we ended up getting married and, um, we've both rejected that faith.

Jayson Blair: I feel like he knows and understands me better. Then anybody else on this planet, and we don't have, we have conflict. All married people, all partners do, it's like any good relationship, honestly, because

Ladonna Humphrey: it's healthy conflict.

Speaker: I mean,

Jayson Blair: if you don't have conflict, you're really in trouble.

Ladonna Humphrey: Well, and he's married to the sassiest woman on the planet. So, you know, that's conflict in and of itself. But at the end of the day, I know he understands where I'm coming from, and I feel like at the end of the day, I understand where he's coming from as well.

Speaker: Let's get back to Margo's story. She had been receiving messages from a mysterious person. From her recollection, no one knew her location, except this person texting her MargoElston11221870337: that next day when I woke up, she showed up with Danny and, uh, I packed up my stuff and they drove me to, uh, the rehab facility that I, that I spent 60 days in. Margo wondered, how did LaDonna know that she was at a motel if she only told this mysterious texter the location? MargoElston11221870337: And, um, it wasn't till much later that she told me she had, had a miscarriage because of what I put her through. JavierLeiva21221870337: What did you, what did you put her through? Just your situation? MargoElston11221870337: Yeah, her driving me to rehab. Um, so it was my fault that she had a miscarriage. Um, she didn't think she could get pregnant again. Now, while I'm in rehab, she was pressing the issue for me to sign a paper saying that Cash could stay with her and she wanted to get it notarized. So, temporary guardianship. My son's name is Cash, by the way. According to Margo, LaDonna was pushing to take custody of her son Cash. And Margo says that she allowed it. MargoElston11221870337: I just knew that there were some younger kids at her house and I thought, well, maybe my son would like to be around other kids, you know, so he had never spent time away from me really. My parents were like, you need to really think about what you want. My gut instinct told me to let my parents keep him. So, my dad came and I signed over the temporary guardianship to my dad instead. Which made LaDonna livid. Um, my parents and I believe that she wanted to keep Cash for her. we return from the break, we're going to hear LaDonna's reaction to these accusations. During my interview with LaDonna, I asked her about her sister, Margo.

Javier: I've heard that your sister, Margo had like a substance abuse problem was, is that the case? I mean, was

Speaker: she struggling with drugs and alcohol? 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: I would not talk about anything that's going on with my sister. I don't think that's appropriate

Javier: Cause there are some crazy things here. And so that's why I wanted to, to air them out.

Speaker: personal want even ask you or, you know, 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: I'm not going to talk about anything that's 20240515-riverside\_javier\_leiva\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0015: me to 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: personal problems. Why would I do that? That's not very appropriate.

Javier: well, that was a lead

Speaker: in to my follow up question if you want to hear it or not. I mean, 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: I mean, you're welcome to ask. It's off

Javier: it's off

Speaker: limits. So, 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: going to confirm or deny if someone has a substance abuse problem. I think that's an appropriate question. No,

Javier: I guess it was a lead in to my next question, which there's no way to verify this, because at least I haven't seen any proof, but I would like to get your take on it was that this is probably a She's another person that says that she was harassing or getting harassing text messages and she was communicating with these text messages.

Speaker: And eventually the person communicating her was encouraging her to commit suicide. And at one point maybe tried to commit that she tried to commit suicide. 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: No, she's never 20240515-riverside\_javier\_leiva\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0015: suicide 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: suicide that I'm aware of. So,

Javier: or I guess she said that, She was at a hotel or something. And the only person that she told the location to was this person on the other end of those messages.

Speaker: And that maybe you showed up immediately. Like you knew the location of that hotel. 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: no. Um, so I, I want to be really careful that I don't confirm or deny a substance abuse problem, but my, I guess I'm going to have to because my husband and I did go to a hotel. So, To retrieve her and her things upon her request and we drove her to rehab and took her

Javier: So she reached out to you and said, Hey, I'm here at

Speaker: this hotel. 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: Yes.

Javier: And, and one of the things was that she had a son, right. And while she was in rehab, were you trying to help out with her son,

Speaker: or or what was the situation like then? Yeah. 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: what was the situation? Um, I had him some and my parents had him some. So we were just, we both had him. And then my parents ended up, uh, I think in some sort of legal battle with her ex. Over the little, over my nephew. But yeah, everybody tried to help her out.

Javier: but did you ever try to get guardianship or custody of her son

Speaker: 20240515-riverside\_ladonna\_humphrey\_raw-audio\_javier\_leiva's stud\_0016: Um, I believe she signed some guardianship that we, and we had guardianship for maybe a month. Um, Maybe a little bit longer before she got out of rehab, and he ended up staying with my parents. It wasn't very long, um, because he really needed to be with her, and she moved in with my

Javier: I,

Speaker: After my call with LaDonna, her husband, Danny, texted me, and he wrote, Hello, Javier. My name is Danny Humphrey, and I am the husband of LaDonna Humphrey. I have been made aware of the claims surrounding LaDonna's sister, Margo Margo Elston, alleging that LaDonna was sending harassing texts prior to us taking her to rehab, suggesting that she should kill herself. This allegation is patently false. The truth is, we were in contact with Margo via our personal phones throughout the day and into the evening. But we were pleading with her to check herself into rehab. There was never any spoofed texts or anonymous communications from LaDonna. Margo willingly shared that she was staying at a cheap motel in Fort Smith and provided us with the address. LaDonna and I then drove to Fort Smith where we persuaded Margo, who was visibly under the influence, to return to Rogers with us that evening. He said the following day they drove to a bank where Margo signed a temporary guardianship agreement giving indefinite temporary custody of her son, Cash, to LaDonna and I. along with her parents Kent and Susan Elston. Danny told me that he and LaDonna drove Margo to rehab. he said he was present throughout the whole ordeal. There was no harassment, no spoof messages from LaDonna. And there were certainly no statements made at any point in any form of suggestion that Margot should kill herself. there was only direct contact expressing a desire to see her younger sister get sober and get her life back on track. Danny also provided me with a photocopy of the temporary guardianship agreement. And it's true, Margo did sign over temporary custody of her son, Cash. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: This is what she said about you. You asked me about the situation with my sister Margo. I believe my husband provided solid proof of what you need. I am estranged from my sister by choice. I am, I'm sure it's not too difficult to figure out why. However, I have nothing further to say on the matter. audioMargoElston11180617643: It's because she doesn't have anything on me. I've not done anything to her. I've, I, I've not done anything to her. So she, and, and as far as providing proof, proof, proof of what, I mean, I know what you showed me, but what substance is that? that that paper that she sent you should have been thrown away like three days after I signed it. I did sign it. I, for, I had forgotten. I signed it. be honest, because it's been 10 years, she had me sign something right then and there. it wasn't. Like I said, a matter of maybe two or three days tops after that, that my dad came up there and took me to a bank locally. And I signed a different form, uh, that was notarized that just had my parents. And so I don't know why she's kept it this whole time audioJavierLeiva21180617643: So in the last time we talked, you, you said that she's the worst type of evil, but we didn't really talk about that. Like, why, what made you say that? Because that's like a strong statement. audioMargoElston11180617643: audioMargoElston11180617643: she is very intelligent, right? We know this. She's a very intelligent woman, and you look at her on the outside, you know, she's adopted five children, she's a journalist, she's written all these books, she's done a lot of high profile jobs, helping, who have missing children, missing family members. And now she is in these, you know, murder cases that are cold cases, So yeah, that on the outside, that's like a, it's a public figure to look at somebody to look up to. That's how I would view somebody like that, know, but behind closed doors, she's doing all these things to destroy people's state of mindd to destroy their businesses, destroy their lives. Who can juggle all of these things? Why would you do that? You know what I'm saying? Why, for what purpose? That's why I think it's the worst type of evil you know, it's like, it's, I don't know how to explain it, but to me, that's the worst type of people to smile in your face and then stab you in the back type thing. when we come back, we're going to talk more about LaDonna's past to see if it gives us any understanding about who she is today. I asked Margot to tell me what LaDonna was like as a child. audioMargoElston11180617643: she did get in trouble a lot in school, I know that she got into a lot of fights with other kids. I know that in maybe junior high or high school, she would. stole like a hood ornament off of some kid's car MargoElston11221870337: my mom was getting calls from the principal weekly all the time since she was little. audioMargoElston11180617643: And I know kids aren't perfect. Kids are gonna get in fights. Kids are gonna make mistakes. But this is something to where my parents were getting calls from the principal all the time Several times a week audioJavierLeiva21180617643: I am curious about people that, like LaDonna, I mean, they don't just start doing that as an adult. Does she have any history of maybe being a little bit, uh, creative with the truth when she was younger? audioMargoElston11180617643: My mom said she did lie about everything all the time. But again, you know, I, I really wish, uh, some more family members would come forward you know, um. With me being so young, I can't, I can't tell you what all she lied about. I just know that my audioJavierLeiva21180617643: Right audioMargoElston11180617643: that she did all the time. One thing Margot wanted to get through was that her family is pretty average. Sure, every family has problems, right? But they always got through it together. There's another story that, um, hmm, I think you'll find interesting. I'll have Margo tell it. MargoElston11221870337: Now. Mind you, also, at this time, right before everything happened with me, is when she, LaDonna was sending out mass emails to everybody she knew saying that she was pregnant, gave birth to a stillborn baby, a little girl. She had pictures of a baby. She was never pregnant, Yes, you heard correctly. I have screenshots of emails from several people announcing the birth of LaDonna's baby back in May of 2007. Just to give you some reference, this is after LaDonna quit working at Lake Hills Baptist Church And a few years before John Allen's house caught on fire. I'll read you some of the emails. LaDonna gave birth to a beautiful and healthy baby girl. Anna Kate. Quote, LaDonna gave birth to a beautiful and healthy baby girl, Anna Kate, this morning. I'm so excited to have another beautiful niece to spoil. Another email shows an invitation to LaDonna's baby shower for baby Anna Kate. The next email shows a close up of baby Anna Kate at her church. It said, quote, such a doll. Look at that full head of hair. The next email shows a collage of close ups of baby Anna Kate. It could be the same baby. It could be multiple babies. All babies kind of look the same to me. Heck, I was even fooled by Tanya Fernandez's fake baby doll in the Stalker series. So what do I know? Okay, back to LaDonna and baby Kate. According to these emails, the baby girl was born on May 3rd, 2007. then, on June 24th, 2007, the emails took a tragic turn. it was announced that LaDonna's grandfather had passed away. And so did baby, and Kate. MargoElston11221870337: Okay, so my mom's father, my grandpa, had passed away around this time, And my mom had went over to LaDonna's house, and LaDonna had sympathy cards all over her desk area. And LaDonna was saying, They're all because grandpa had passed away. People are just sending me all these cards. Well, my mom had picked one of them up to look at it and they weren't. They were all like, I'm so sorry for the loss of that sweet baby girl. Stuff like it and I think that was probably the last time my mom was involved with LaDonna By the way, infant deaths are public record in Arkansas, and there was never any baby listed under that name. Or, with that last name Margo and her mother have also stated that LaDonna was never pregnant at that time and never lost a baby. MargoElston11221870337: I mean, ever since LaDonna was little, my mom would tell you that she's just Always lied about everything, even when it was a situation that, you know, there was no, no need for a lie to happen. She would just lie for sport. She would do things to other children in the classroom for sport. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: why would she do this? audioMargoElston11180617643: I honestly think that she thinks it's funny. She would do little. Little things like prank calls and and text people when I was younger and she would laugh about it All the time, little things. And so I guess that doesn't make sense with me telling you. I just honestly think she thinks it's funny. I don't know if she understands how bad it's hurt people, but I mean, how old is she now? 50\. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: Yeah audioMargoElston11180617643: to understand that it hurt. She knows the difference between right and wrong. So why? I don't know. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: Do you think that, uh, can you tell me about a time where, where she showed empathy for either somebody in your family or for you? audioMargoElston11180617643: You know, she, I feel like she would appear to have empathy Uh, when I was at my lowest point, she shows up, you know, to take me, like I told you, and then, you know, disappears. So, no, I don't, no, I don't really recall any times that she was super empathetic about anything audioJavierLeiva21180617643: know audioJavierLeiva21180617643: what do you think is going on in her head now? Like, I know you don't know, but she's your sister, right? Like, how do you think she's feeling? Is this just another bump in the road for her? audioMargoElston11180617643: Yeah, I'm sure she thinks that she's going to get away with it again She's probably fighting like hell to be honest, to, to prove everybody else wrong, but I don't think she's going to be able to, cause we're not wrong. We're not the ones who are lying. audioJavierLeiva21180617643: Are you worried about any backlash that could result from this? I mean, the cat's out of the bag, right? She already knows. audioMargoElston11180617643: Yeah. Yeah, of course. I'm worried about it, but I hope. that with all of us coming together, she will stop what she's doing or be stopped. That's what I hope. But if nothing happens and she just goes about her life, yeah, it'll continue. And I'm sure I'll get backlash for the rest of my life from it. But I'm not going to give up on the other victims. I'm really not. Alright, that's it for today's episode. Of course, if you want to listen to the episodes as I make them, I'm dropping multiple episodes at a time on Patreon and Pretend Plus. Also, there's lots of discussion going on on the Patreon message boards and also on Reddit. Of course, there's always David McClam's podcast devoted to this series, which he's called We Are not afraid. There's lots of content offline that will keep you busy. I think that's what people really like about this show is that I am reporting it in real time, so there's a lot of stuff brewing all the time. And I think that's one of the reasons why people hate this series, because they want to binge it right now. Well, if you do, The latest episodes will always be on Patreon and Apple Podcasts. Or you could wait until they get released weekly here on the regular feed. Some people like the suspense of going week to week. Today's episode was written by me, Javier Leyva. It was also produced by Allison Byrne It was edited by the talented Poonath Shenoy with the podcast Pundance and our theme music was composed by Joe Basile with the Chicken. net. It's a great theme song. After seven years, I'm still dancing to this tune. All right, that's it for this week. We'll talk real soon.