2408: PRETEND Live AMA

Speaker: Hey guys, it's me. Javier, first of all, happy New Year. , Today's episode is gonna be a little different. It's an ask me anything. It's all about the making of pretend. And I had a few listeners across social media and Patreon submit questions for me about what they wanna know about behind the scenes, some stories, what's coming up next. And we did this a MA on live on YouTube. The live part was a bit of a disaster, but we got it working. And it was co-hosted by my listener Katie Watson, who's a Patreon supporter. Katie. I asked her out of the blue, I said, Hey, would you like to be my co-host? And she stepped up to the plate and she did a fantastic job. So I hope you enjoy this little. Behind the scenes episode and stay tuned for next week when we start our brand new series. It's a psychic sting, actually, several psychic stings including, um, some of the, the undercover sitters were actually Patreon supporters of this show. Um, it's, it's, it's a wild series, has lots of twists and turns. I hope you enjoy it. But take a listen to this episode. Let me know what you think. If you have any more questions. Shoot me an email. Send me something on social media. I'll answer it. All right. Let's play the show.

Javier: Woo-hoo. We got this working. I don't know what you guys are seeing, but hopefully you could see us. Sorry about this. I obviously suck at lives, but, uh, now that we have a party going, Uh, yes. This thing is on Jerry Williams. Thank you for coming, Rebecca.

Speaker: I'm so glad you're here. We gotta talk, by the way. Um, and Jess, nice to see you. Cando, you're a rockstar. Mary Beth, who am I forgetting? Uh, Christine, Anyways, thank you guys for, for coming and sorry for the technical difficulties. Introducing Katie Watson

Javier: You might be wondering, who is this person next to me?

Speaker: Well, this is Katie Watson who is a Patreon supporter. I wanna do this more often and hopefully with less technical hiccups, but where I invite a Patreon supporter to come and join me and do a, a live episode. I'm trying to do a lot of reaction episodes too, where we play the actual episode and then we have a reaction to it. And I want to invite my Patreon supporters. Well, anyways, Katie, thank you for coming. I said this in the fake live that we had earlier. 'cause Katie and I were, yeah, but Katie is from California and she has a beautiful British accent. So she's gonna make this episode so much more classy than, than, uh, than it is.

Katy Watson: Ah,

Javier: But, uh, this was this, by the way, Katie, this was all Jessica Sarlow idea.

Speaker: She's a listener and she's like, why don't you, uh, do a live a a And so, Jessica, this is all your fault, but So Katie, tell me before we get started, tell me, uh, how, how long have you been listening to pretend? Katie's Podcast Journey

Javier: When did you discover the show?

Katy Watson: I'm a long time listener, first time co-host. Um, I actually, I, um, I think I heard of it through, uh, the Something Was Wrong podcast, but

Javier: Oh.

Katy Watson: I do listen to pretend, um, a lot. So yeah, I started listening to that. I think I'm actually pre stalker, um, fan, I think. Uh, but I have definitely, obviously listened to the Stalker and I recommended it to my mom.

Speaker: And then I joined the Patreon because of the stalker, and I really wanted to find out what was happening. And I was trying to send her links, but it wasn't working so she could get the episodes early and everything. Um,

Javier: I'm, I'm, I'm so glad you discovered the show. And

Katy Watson: yeah,

Javier: Stalker and I just realized I'm on the screen twice, don't worry. It's just double, double the fun, you know? But, but if you've been listening to The Stalker, I, that's been a few years now. It's such a, and it's such a standout story that like, it, it, people still ask me about that all the time.

Speaker: I get like the same stories. People ask me the same, uh, questions. Listener Questions Begin

Javier: So, so the reason why we're here is 'cause you're gonna ask me a bunch of questions that, that you have, but then also that. You we pulled from social media, from Patreon listeners were asking questions. A lot of 'em are really, really good questions.

Speaker: So, um, ask away.

Katy Watson: Okay. So the first question, I'll just go for it. The, uh, it's from user. Never have I had the urge. Hey, Javier, how do you know when a story is really about something deeper and not just an interesting event?

Speaker: The Art of Storytelling

Javier: That's actually a really good question because half the time I'm working on a story. I don't know if it's a viable story, you know, uh, I always tell people it's like a fishing expedition, so I'm casting a lot of nets or like a lot of lines, right? And I never know which story is gonna bite. And I'll just give you an example.

Speaker: My wife and I were at a comedy show last night and we were waiting for the com comedian, and I checked my notification and I got a message from this guy. And he's like, sure, I'll talk to you. And I'm like, who the heck is this guy? And so I messaged this guy months ago, and now he's responding. And I'm like, what story was that? And so I'm constantly looking for stories. Um, so the first trick is like getting them to bite, right? Getting somebody to talk to me and then getting a, a well-rounded story, right? Like, I don't like to just talk to one person. I like to talk to a lot of people. And that's when I know that a story works, because now I got both sides talking to me. And I, I feel very uncomfortable anytime I approach a story with only one side, because yeah, I just feel like I'm going to, it's gonna blow up in my face,

Katy Watson: Yeah. Well I think that's what a lot of, um, the listeners really appreciate about your approach is that you do, um, I mean, sure, sometimes you might seem a bit biased one way or another, or have your own, you know, ideas, but you do go really deep and like present all sides and yeah, you put in like way more effort than lots of people do and then just churn out podcasts and you're just like, hmm.

Speaker: He's really trying to cover all, all the bases. So I think it's definitely, um, one of the main many reasons that people like the show. Um, and then that

Javier: I do struggle.

Speaker: Balancing Bias in Journalism

Javier: I do struggle with the whole bias thing, by the way, because I grew up, I, I, I went to school, J school, journalism school, and they told us never show any emotions. Never. Like if you're interviewing somebody, this is a, this is a human, um, reflex, right? Like if somebody's talking to you, you shake your head right?

Speaker: And you shake your head. But that's showing that you're agreeing with them. That's what they taught us, that you can't even like nod your head because it shows that you're bias. And so, like I came from, uh. A school of thought where it was just like, you cannot ever show how you feel about a story. And like, I just feel like journalism has changed, and it's a little freeing to let my own opinions show every now and then. Not that I, I'm not trying to like, you know, preach to anybody. It's not like M-S-N-B-C or Fox News or whatever, but, but I'm human. I have opinions and I just think the world of journalism has kind of changed. So I changed too.

Katy Watson: But also just like the whole, um, podcast, just the way podcasts are now. And you know, you, you can make them and update them with new information almost as soon as you get it. I mean, and there's been examples where you've kind of said something and then you found out later more information or whatever, and then you're just like, Hey, here's an update, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: So, um, yeah, it's, I mean, and also people are listening to podcasts, not just for kind of investigations, unbiased, just the facts. We, you know, you want to be entertained as well. So I think having a host with, you know, more, a bit more of a personal opinion sometimes is quite refreshing. Um, but yeah. Building Trust with Interviewees

Katy Watson: I was gonna go onto a question from Rhodes, which was, how do you get people to talk to you and how do you build that trust?

Javier: Yeah, that's, that's a tricky one. I wish I knew the answer to that question. I think it, it's a real case by case basis. You know, you, you try, when you approach somebody, like right now I'm doing a, a, a story. My next series that comes out next week, it's about psychics. And we did these under undercover things with actually with some of my Patreon supporters, Rebecca, which I know you're watching.

Speaker: Rebecca was part of this sting. And, um, so, you know, I felt like I couldn't do the story without talking with the psychics. Right. And spoiler alert to as of this moment, I have not successfully spoken to the psychic. So

Katy Watson: I thought you were gonna say, spoiler alert, they, they're not real.

Javier: but no, I, I'm just saying like, well, that, that too, but, um, no, but what I wanted to say was that.

Speaker: That I have not spoken with a psychic, so that's proof that I can't reach everyone, right? Like I can't always with a hundred percent success rate, right? Get who I want to talk to. But as I approach the psychic, I have to ask myself, what would make the psychic want to talk to me? Right? And like, there's different approaches, right? So you could say, you could say, Hey, listen, I'm running the story anyway. You know, so it might benefit you to get your side of the story out. Or I could say, Hey, you know, there's nothing wrong with being a psychic. You're not, you know, people are paying you, they're willingly participating in this. You know, like I have to like come down to their level, make it seem acceptable for them to want to talk to me. And I'm just using the psychic as an example, because that's just like the most recent. An example, but I was on a call, and you'll hear this in this new series where, where I did a, a cold call to one of the psychics assistant and you get to hear the psychics assistant. In fact, you get to hear the whole process of me going from, they were at a, like really alarmed that I called right. Very like, cautious about what they were saying to the point where I could break them down and we were chitchatting towards the end of the call, right? And so, like, if I could get that person to talk to me and we just engaged like real people and, and I let them let their guard down, then I, my success rate of getting them to talk to me on the record, um, goes up.

Katy Watson: well hopefully that psychics assistant still has their job after having

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: be so free with you. Um, so Kristen Lloyd asked what spiked your interest in these types of stories?

Speaker: Origins of the Podcast

Katy Watson: Or, um, was it a personal scammer story, maybe?

Javier: Well, um, this is a story that I say a lot, so I don't, I don't really want to rehash the whole thing, but, but it all, I have no fascination with, with con artists. Like, this is not something that I ever really thought about before this podcast. Uh, this, the whole concept of the show came from my cousin when I was starting the podcast.

Speaker: He was getting ready to go to federal prison and I knew that he had gotten into a lot of trouble, but I didn't know why. And so I asked him, I said, Hey, you know what got you into this medicine? He told me the whole thing from car insurance fraud, all the way to medical fraud, and it was just, it left me like with my mouth, my jaw on the floor. So I was like, yeah, that's what the show's about. And, and, but I, I have learned. Personal Stories and Liars

Javier: That I have a very low tolerance for people who lie. I really, really don't like liars. Like it really bugs me. I, I remember we once had, um, a contractor come to the house to do some work on the house and he would just lie all the time.

Speaker: Like he, he showed me his work, like we were renovating the bathroom and he was showing me like pictures of his work. And one of the bathtubs I was looking at, it was beautiful. It had like a picture window in the background with mountains and the bathtub was like this beautiful egg. And I'm like, where's the plumbing? It was like, oh, this is an AI picture. He's trying to sell me an AI picture. And like that was his work. And

Katy Watson: And then it's like reality and it's just a horrible

Javier: ah, I just cannot stand people that lie or try to pull a fast one on you. And so I was like, I was like, do you know who I am? I have a podcast about people just like you.

Katy Watson: I mean, if you run out of ideas, you could like maybe hit him back up and, uh, see what kind of stuff he's posting. Well, that goes into a question from Sydney Linny, which was how did the podcast change your relationship with your cousin and how's his life been after prison?

Speaker: Cousin's Redemption

Javier: Oh, I, I love this question because, um, you know, I do have a good relationship with my cousin. He's, uh, I just saw him recently, actually, in November. I went down to Miami, and he's doing fine, as long as, as far as I could tell in terms of he's had some health problems. But in terms of criminal behavior, as far as I know, he's left that part, part of him behind him, and he's become an entrepreneur.

Speaker: He has his own business and has become pretty successful. So I really love that. Right? Like, and that's part of the mission of the show, is to, to show that people could make mistakes. People could, uh, commit crimes, but. We have to allow people room to change, to grow, to improve their lives, you know, and I, I don't think that we talk about that a lot as a society.

Katy Watson: Okay. So I was gonna ask about, if you're talking about sort of your personal life, um, I. Donna, how to say this?

Speaker: Balancing Podcasting and Life

Katy Watson: Agata Volpe 88 says, how do you balance all the journalistic research to get episodes out while balancing another job and personal life?

Javier: Oh yeah. That's tough. You know? Yeah. Um, back in last November, I got laid off from my job and I freaked out, but then I was like, this is a great opportunity. I'll just be a full-time podcaster. But, you know, it's tough being a full-time podcaster. So I found this new job. It was an awesome opportunity. I'm actually, um, leading, uh, a podcast YouTube studio.

Speaker: You would think that I would do a better job at live. We don't do live, so, uh, but I produce podcasts for brands and for people who want to. To build their own personal brand. And so that's kind of fun. So like, I couldn't pass up that opportunity. So I do have a full-time job and I have the podcast, and so I'm constantly working. I work all day, all night, all weekends. I mean, it, it's exhausting, but I always tell people that it's a little bit more fun than it is work, you know? And, and so that's what kind of

Katy Watson: So you actually want to do it rather than being like, uh,

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. I, I hope soon that I could do it full time, but it is just, it's tough, you know? It, it's really, there are some content creators that make tons of money and, and could live off of it, but not there yet, but working on it.

Katy Watson: Yeah. Well you definitely deserve to be.

Speaker: Other Podcast Projects

Katy Watson: Um, 'cause you also have two other podcasts

Javier: Yeah. And yeah, and, and I kind of put those two podcasts on hold right now just because of that question. I've been so busy, you know, it's really hard to juggle. And the more that I add to my play, I feel like the quality goes down. And I'm not, uh, although I love Ponzi playbook and I love criminal conduct, you know, criminal conduct is so intense.

Speaker: It takes a whole year of reporting to make one season to make like six to 10 episodes. It's nuts. It's more work than pretend. And then Ponzi Playbook is less work and a lot more fun. I just do Ponzi playbook 'cause I love, it's my excuse to hang out with my friend Neil, you know, and it's just a lot of fun. But

Katy Watson: It's really good. It's

Javier: yeah. And

Katy Watson: Oh, I do have a question about, um, Ponzi playbook though, from me. Okay. Um, it's just about the theme tune. I was just wondering, it's like, did your kids play play the theme tune

Javier: Oh, that little, that one, that song no, it's, it's from some stock music sake, but I loved it. It sounded so silly.

Katy Watson: It was so funny. I was like, oh. 'cause um, when my sister and I were growing up, like we played the clarinet and flute and my parents or my mom would like wheel us out, you know, when their friends were around, we had to do a little duet for them or whatever, and I was like, this sounds like someone playing the violin and someone playing the clarinet being forced to

Javier: it just

Katy Watson: duet.

Javier: I don't know why we chose that song, but it was something about it. I, you know, when you hear it, you're just like, this is it. You know? I don't know why.

Katy Watson: Okay. It's a good one.

Javier: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker: Theme Songs and Audience Reactions

Javier: But people, can I say that people hated the criminal conduct theme song? If you go to Apple Rev, uh, oh my God.

Speaker: If you go to the Apple Podcast reviews, it's like. Love the show. Hate the theme song, hate the Theme song, hate

Katy Watson: Oh

Javier: That was every review. And I'm like, well, you know, we got that theme song from an artist named Ruby Rose Fox,

Katy Watson: yeah. I remember it now. Yeah.

Javier: she's such an amazing singer, and I was like, her music, by the way, I think it's fantastic.

Speaker: So maybe we just have different tastes of music. I don't know.

Katy Watson: Isn't it something about burying somebody or

Javier: Oh, that one is called Bury the Body, but she

Katy Watson: That's it. I think it's good

Javier: I like it. So you know what,

Katy Watson: but it isn't. It's no Ponzi playbook. Theme tune. I'll

Javier: that's That's true. Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay. Let's move on to, um, okay. This is a bit of a heavier subject, Joe Rocco.

Speaker: Scariest Interview Subjects

Katy Watson: Out of all the people you've done stories on, which one are you most afraid of attempting physical harm, I presume on you?

Javier: Ooh. Wow. So, you know, that's, I get that a lot. Like people must think that I'm like in, in danger all the time and, uh, I hope not. But, um, the one that scared the living daylights out of me was the pests,

Katy Watson: Oh God, yeah.

Javier: that was a, a series about gang stalking. And

Katy Watson: even want to comment on those episodes.

Javier: yeah, I was just like, stay away. Stay away. Like, don't I?

Speaker: And so, um, I remember that my wi, I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast. Maybe I have, I don't know. But I remember, I, I let my wife listen to the episodes. It was like three, three episodes and. We both agreed, we're like, this is not worth it. We should never release these episodes. And I go, well, maybe, maybe if I just release it on Patreon, like they're not on my Patreon. The, I released it on Patreon, went on vacation, and I wanted to unplug. And so I, I did not check my phone and, but then I snuck a peek in the middle of my vacation and I saw that they had downloaded the episodes from Patreon. They somehow like hacked Patreon and ripped the files and published it on their, maybe one of 'em paid me $3 and they posted it on their forum and they were calling me all kinds of terrible things. And they had found my house and they had found everything about me and I was so nervous. But thank God they actually liked my show. They liked the episodes, so I,

Katy Watson: thing, that's your like balanced approach. 'cause you were, 'cause they, they came across as like, you know, oh hey, uh, that dude just won't let it go kind of thing. Like, you know.

Javier: That was one of those stories where ev there was no likable characters. There was nobody to root for in that series. And you know, I, I think that was a good lesson to when, when I approach a story, I think you have to be able to root for somebody, right? And in that case, it annoyed people because they're like, both sides are terrible.

Speaker: You know, like, yeah,

Katy Watson: Although, we'll say, thinking about it, I can't really think of that many examples of people to root for in your, 'cause You normally like pick some, uh, antagonist. Then talk about what they're doing. There's not normally like, you know, a hero type person. Well, and going on from that, this is, it says Mrs.

Speaker: Page, PhD Friend. LaDonna Updates

Katy Watson: I dunno if that's her title or she's actually a friend, but it says, what's the status with LaDonna? I'm dying for an update.

Javier: You know, I wish I had more to tell you other than for the most part I feel like she's laying low. I have, every time there was something significant, I've done an episode about it. Um, oh, there are some things actually, now that I think about it. LaDonna, I'm not accusing you LaDonna, but I highly suspect that you're the one that signed me up for all those, uh, bible, daily Bible verses and also gay bears, which I learned that bears, that's a subset of, of the gay community.

Speaker: Yeah. I get their magazine now. I get all kinds of stuff on a daily basis, and it's just your way of saying that you're thinking of me and, and I appreciate that. So.

Katy Watson: Daily Bears and daily Bible this. So

Javier: it's just I saw unsubscribe, but she does this, I mean, I'm not saying you do this LaDonna, but other people who have had interactions with you also receive emails, unwanted emails, uh, but the, the,

Katy Watson: a lot, a lot worse than, uh, you, you make it sound funny, but yeah. Theirs were a bit more, a bit

Javier: yeah, yeah. Exactly. And this kind of stuff doesn't bother Bible bears. Yeah. Can you know, but, um, actually this, and, and I'll tell you guys this and, and I hesitate to say this because it, anytime I talk about these people, it just like, gives 'em attention and then they like do something else. So, but it is so funny because you know that David MCC Clam, he's one of LaDonna surrogates, he had a whole podcast devoted to reacting to my podcast and even after my podcast was done.

Speaker: This man con continued to do his podcast, and he said that he released the final episode. And so of course I'm like, okay, most of the time I just read the transcripts. But he said that he wrote a country AI song. He, he used an AI tool to create a country, not a country song, a country album, multiple songs about the whole, we are, um, about the whole, like, who's afraid of LaDonna Humphrey series. And it was so bad.

Katy Watson: oh, I already

Javier: Like, I hate, like, now you guys are gonna go check it out or give em downloads. It is so bad.

Katy Watson: Oh man. I already wanna hear

Javier: And then, and then LaDonna, like one other thing with LaDonna is that she's still running a lot of. Facebook groups, you know, about different cases. So she's, she's still out there, um, trying to get, you know, involved in a bunch of cases, uh, but nothing, nothing newsworthy it, it sounds like everything's like cool for right now.

Katy Watson: Okay. But Easter's coming up again. You know, she might have

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: another Easter party thing.

Javier: Those Easter egg hunts. Just stay away from the dog part.

Katy Watson: Oh yeah.

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: Pick it up. Pick it up. The wrong little chocolates.

Javier: Avoid the brown Easter eggs. Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay. This is from Matt's collectibles, and I saw this one on Instagram. He actually asked it three times. Um, but it's the same question. He said, have you heard anything from Frank Abigail? Who he called Frank Abigail, but I presume he meant Frank Abigail,

Javier: He meant, he meant Frank Kane.

Katy Watson: you did on him? Yeah. So did, have you heard anything back from him?

Javier: Yeah. So actually no, I never heard from Frank Kane other than that one. Uh. Email that I sent him that his people replied. And then that one time that I met him in person that I, uh, did that ambush interview. Other than that, I've never heard directly from him. I, you know, I, he was speaking at the same event that I was invited to speak at, and then he had a scheduling conflict.

Katy Watson: Mysteriously couldn't make it anymore.

Javier: but, but that's it. Yeah. No, I haven't heard from Old Frank in a while. I know that he, I know that he's done a couple speeches here and there, but it, it has significantly dropped his, his live speaking gigs have significantly dropped since the series came out, and I'm still waiting for, for somebody to do the sequel to catch me if you can.

Speaker: 'cause that would be a really cool movie.

Katy Watson: With the actual real story. I

Javier: Yeah. With the real story.

Katy Watson: all meta, I don't know. Oh, I'm just trying to think how that would work. Um, but I also, um, 'cause I write for a, a YouTuber who, uh, has various channels on YouTube. And I, um, actually contacted you, I dunno if you remember it was me. Um, 'cause I write for a channel called Decoding the Unknown.

Speaker: And I really wanted to also cover the, 'cause when I heard the story I was just like, oh my God, how do, how do people not know this? And um, I was like, can I do this story? Um, you know, I hope you don't think I'm just ripping you off. And you're like, no, this story is like public domain kind of thing. So I um, got my research, obviously, like from your research 'cause you did so much. And I was like, I'm not going to ambush this guy, but I can say that someone else did. And so when, um, the host is Simon Whistler, when he was reading it out, he was like, oh, Javier Lava actually went and met Frank. He was like, yes, Jer, yes.

Javier: Oh, you were the one that

Katy Watson: It was me.

Javier: That was cool.

Katy Watson: um, yeah, and I think, and that was quite a popular video, so,

Javier: I remember that. Yeah. It was a very popular video. That's really cool. And, and, and I love that other people are taking, um, the, you know, like the baton and running with it. I, I know, and I love that. I, I don't think that there's any ownership here, right?

Speaker: Like, I think

Katy Watson: that was it. You said ownership, but I think what, what everyone agrees is that Catch Me if You Can, is a really good movie and that it can just be a movie on its own. It doesn't matter if it's true. What, what, it's a great movie, but yeah, this guy just, just lying his entire life and everyone's just like, oh, okay.

Speaker: Yeah. When you start to think about it for a second, you're like, hang on a minute. This doesn't sound right, but yeah. Okay. So we can go on now to one from. Red Flags and Trust Issues

Katy Watson: I dunno if that's how you say it, but anyway, she says, or they say, after covering so many scam stories, what's one red flag that you now notice instantly that you totally used to miss before you started this work?

Speaker: Has working on these stories changed the way you think about trust in your own life at all?

Javier: All right, so I don't know about a red flag. I, I have become a little bit more cynical. Like, I, I question things a lot more now. So like, especially if somebody is overly generous or something like that, like, I always like that's a red flag, but I don't want to sound that cynical. I have not lost my faith in humanity.

Speaker: In fact, I don't know if you know this from my podcast, and I think that this is what makes me really successful is that I'm kind of, I am so gullible. I believe everything

Katy Watson: I do as well. I'll just believe

Javier: somebody told me

Katy Watson: and then I'm like, oh yeah.

Javier: Somebody told me about a left-handed hammer

Katy Watson: Oh

Javier: and I totally believed them. Like, and so I still have, I haven't lost that side of me, which I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but I think that's what makes me curious.

Speaker: 'cause then I, I, I'm gullible so I listen to whatever the story that somebody's telling me, but then I go back and, and check, you know, so I'm not gullible and just

Katy Watson: exactly. Except and verify whatever it is.

Speaker: Telepathy Tapes and Skepticism

Katy Watson: Well, when you did, um, the telepathy tapes, I think that was a really good example. That was, I, I mean that kind of thing is so interesting 'cause you like present the telepathy thing and you're like, okay. And also in like in an audio format, it was kind of a bit hard to wrap your head around exactly what was happening.

Speaker: But you're like, wow, okay, this seems really interesting and how is this happening? And then when you actually explain what's going on with the kids and the parents, whether subconsciously or you know, on or consciously, you're like, oh, okay, this is obviously not. What we originally thought. Um, but yeah, you kind of want to want to believe it at the beginning 'cause you're just like, wow, this is like such a breakthrough. If it's real.

Javier: What you want to believe. And you and I could still watch those videos and be in awe. And I'm like, how is that possible? But it's like a magic trick, right? Because I've seen magic tricks before. I've seen women getting saw in half, and I know that they didn't get saw in half, but it appears real. And when something, you know like that, I don't know.

Speaker: Have you seen this? Oz Ooz Pearlman, this like mentalist that he's going around all the talk shows now, like reading people's, he does, uh, telepathy or like, but he's a, he's a mentalist, right? So he's telling you that he doesn't really have powers, but he could, like, he guessed Joe Rogan's ATM PIM code and he does all these things and it just seems. Impossible that somebody could do that. But you know, it's a trick. And I think that, that what the telepathy tapes didn't put out there was that, Hey, this is not like ironclad, like there are other ways to explain this phenomenon. And so, like, I felt like I called it the telepathy tapes B side, because I felt like there, there were so bias on one side I wanted to overcorrect and like be biased on the other side. So, um, I don't know. I, I mean, it was a good series and I enjoyed listening to it,

Katy Watson: yeah, it was a really good one. Um, I was, I was gonna go back and, uh, look at, I can't remember who it was now. Who was that guy with, like that box that he could detect?

Javier: oh, um, with the, with the, the,

Katy Watson: It was just like some box that Yeah, he, that he, he was going around saying that they could, um,

Javier: the Gizmo, what was it? Ah, what was it

Katy Watson: or something, and you're like, what?

Speaker: You're just flying around. And you could put a, you could put like a hair in the box or something and then it would like find the rest of it. And what about the people sitting in the, in the car with you that are

Javier: right, like why did, why did it find like the mom that was right there? Uh, oh, I forgot what it had a really funny name that box, but, uh,

Katy Watson: Yeah. I can't

Javier: was, but, yeah. I mean, and, but here's, here's what sucks about it, and it's kind of like what you'll hear in this new series with the, the psychics is that these are people whose profession is to profit off of grieving families.

Speaker: Right? And so, like, when you're grieving and you know, you wanna find your, your dead loved ones remains, you'll put a lot of stock into a lot of things that you probably normally wouldn't when you're talking to a psychic and they're saying, yeah, your, your dead mother or grandmother just stepped into the room and you could have one more time to talk with them.

Katy Watson: want. Exactly. You want

Javier: you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay.

Speaker: The Truth in Storytelling

Katy Watson: So Erin McCulley Fine art. Oh, also friend. Um, she said your stories deal with manipulation and obfuscation as a core feature. So how or when are you satisfied that you know what the truth is?

Javier: You know, I guess you'd never know. I always wonder about this too. Okay. Because I have, not only am I gullible, but I also have terrible memory. And so like, I, I always wonder if somebody made a documentary or like a podcast about something in my life. I don't think I could remember all those details. Like sometimes I'm talking with people, I'm interviewing them and I'm like, how do you remember all this stuff?

Speaker: Like, you know, and so I, I don't know that anything that I've put out in the world is a hundred percent accurate the way it was, but it's, it's the way people remembered it. You know, and so I figured if you talk to enough people and then you start getting overlapping stories, and maybe there's some truth to that, um, if you get this one-off story that nobody else remembered, then I, I might drop that part out. So I'm trying to present the best version of the truth that I can.

Katy Watson: And also, I mean, this format, it's, this is the same with a lot of other, um, podcasts as well, especially like true Crime ones. You don't necessarily get, you know, you are not the investigator in the case, you are just kind of presenting the case. You can make up your own. You know, you are not, you are not gonna be the one that solves an unsolved thing necessarily, so people aren't necess, you know, so yeah, everyone's there to just hear about the story and then you can go and, you know, find out more about it if you want to or whatever.

Speaker: But yeah, so in some ways it doesn't necessarily matter, you know what the truth is because you are not saying this, you know, you are not calling someone out in particular or whatever. So,

Javier: Yeah. And, and then I'm also like using public records to corroborate certain things. So like if you pull up a police report that was written at the time, like the Stalker is a great example of that because a lot of the stories were Tanya and Rick telling me what happened, but then I could pull a police record.

Speaker: And so, so I also have the, not just the detective, but whoever the officer was that responded at the scene and they have to write down what they remember. And so like, you know, you're building this tapestry and you're hoping that it's sort of, kind of real, right? Or sort of kind of accurate.

Katy Watson: Yeah, I mean, what else can you do? Like if you have the, yeah, so, and, but then you can, that way, especially with the Stalker series, then you kind of start to see how, like Tanya, for example, might have, you know, been totally fabricating stuff right from the start and everything. You're like, oh my God.

Speaker: Yeah, Maintaining Relationships with Sources

Javier: It was, it was in my best interest to keep her talking and to keep them. I was never, I hope that I'd never presented myself like as I was on their side, you know? But I wanted to maintain a really good relationship with them as long as I could, because I know that the more they talk, the more like data that I'm collecting, you know?

Speaker: And I tried to keep the charades as long as I could. I think it was episode six or something where they realized, you know, that, that this was not going the way they wanted it to. And so the,

Katy Watson: with that story, right? Yeah. So, and you were just, you know. Like, okay, I'll look into it. So I don't know that they could say, oh, you're supposed to be on our side, because they were the ones that like they, I don't think they should have done that.

Javier: I, I'm always amazed at the people that. Wanted to talk to me. I'm like, have you looked at, have you ever listened to an episode of my show like before? And this is free advice.

Speaker: Interview Techniques

Javier: Okay, guys, if you're ever invited on a podcast, make sure to listen to one or two episodes of that podcast to see what you're getting yourself into. I feel like a lot of the people I talk to have no idea. Like they, they just kind of talk to me, or, and I think that this is part of my interview technique. I try to have a very loosey goosey interview. It's not structured. I want it to sound like a conversation so that they forget that they're being interviewed.

Speaker: Because if you think you're being interviewed, you're gonna be kind of rehearsed and, uh, cautious and guarded about what you say. But if you feel like you're having a conversation, I end up getting a lot more information that way, you know? The Stalker Series

Katy Watson: I'll say the one most shocking part of the stalker series for me was hearing you, um, say the C word when I was not expecting it. 'cause you were reading out all the texts and stuff and I was just like, no, no. Oh, oh my God.

Javier: I mean, and, and that

Katy Watson: You didn't it or anything. I was not expecting that.

Speaker: Reading Graphic Texts

Javier: Well, I, I know, and I try not to cuss or anything like that, but like, I just couldn't paint the picture of how graphic and juvenile and disgusting the texts were because you can't see it.

Speaker: Final Thoughts on Immature Threats

Javier: It's a podcast, so I had to read it, you know, and, and I didn't feel like any of the, the threats or the texts were that scary, but they were definitely really immature and I needed,

Katy Watson: super embarrassing to read.

Javier: yeah.

Speaker: Cheesy Characters and Unrealistic Language

Javier: But I needed people to understand that, you know, because this Tanya and Rick Fernandez are also kind of cheesy, and so like the, the text kind of matched their cheesiness, you know, like, I don't think a real, like, I don't know, I just didn't feel like the language was realistic.

Katy Watson: Okay.

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: Right. So let's carry on.

Speaker: Katie's Great Job and Haircare Routine

Javier: By the way, Katie is doing a great job, everybody, right?

Speaker: Yeah, no, she's doing an awesome job. Like, I didn't know Katie, like, like 24 hours ago. Like we've only like messaged on Patreon, but you're doing a great job, so round of applause.

Katy Watson: Okay. Well I'll put in one of my questions then. I was just gonna say, what's your haircare routine? 'cause you're well

Javier: Oh,

Katy Watson: for having nice hair.

Javier: my hair, uh, oh man, it is so long right now. Like I just, uh, I skipped a hair. My, my hair guy, he's, uh, he books out like a month in advance and I had to cancel an appointment, so now I, I'm just sporting the long hair, so like, my hair routine is like, Hey, whatever works. I don't know, like

Katy Watson: You look kind of like an anime character or something at the moment, so,

Javier: Well, thank you. Thank

Katy Watson: yeah.

Javier: I, I, yeah, I, I don't know. I'll keep the long hair for the winter and we'll see what happens, but yeah.

Katy Watson: Cool. Okay. Callie Queen. It's not me.

Speaker: Biggest Challenges in Podcasting

Katy Watson: Um, 8 0 5 says What has been the biggest challenge in doing the pod research? Phone Zoom calls, editing. I will add YouTube lives.

Javier: you know, it's not, one of those things is super taxing. You know, it's like all those things, and they don't all happen at once. It's not like Mondays I'm doing interviews and Tuesdays I'm like, editing and it's just, I don't know. I ha I just have this rhythm now. I just figure it out. And I don't know, I just, you know what I tell people I make use of, and this applies to anybody, right?

Speaker: So like, not even podcasters make use of every available 30 minute that you have. Like, let's say you have, um, meetings back to back, but then you have like a 30 minute gap here and there make use of that time. You know, don't just like, uh, brain rot on social media. Like try to try to do something. Like I'll write a paragraph, you know?

Katy Watson: your advice. I'm so lazy.

Speaker: Creative Process and Story Structure

Javier: Yeah, because it, it's hard in a creative field sometimes you, 'cause I'm, I'm telling stories. My favorite part of the job, maybe this is the question, is forming the story, like the, the story structure. Uh, trying to figure out where the cliff hangs are, or like, I, I want the stories to be twisty, you know, and I always love trying to figure that out, right?

Speaker: Like switching the order. And, um, so that's what I find really fun. And sometimes when you're in a creative field, you need, and if you're a writer, if you're an author or whatever, you need like a lot of time to get mentally in the head space to be creative. But I don't have the luxury of doing that because like, like you said, I have a job, I have a family, I have the podcast. I just figure out a way of like instantly, like just get it done in 30 minutes and then move on to something else. I don't know, I just, I guess I've conditioned myself of.

Katy Watson: Well, that's, that's really good. Okay.

Speaker: Balancing Truth and Storytelling

Katy Watson: Well then that goes into a question from Erin McCulley, fine art friend again, who I can, I've got like a little chat thing that I think she's in and I don't know what, it's just like some random one. I don't even know where I am. But anyway, um, she says, once you know what the truth is, how do you balance crafting a story which has twists and reveals with not blatantly lying to or manipulating the audience to keep them

Javier: Hmm.

Katy Watson: So that's like how you structure

Javier: That's kind of like what I was saying earlier is that like there's a couple ways of saying a joke, right? Like you could tell a joke and it could be like set a punchline and then the joke is over. Or you could tell a joke with that kind of slowly unfolds and unfolds, but you anticipate that punchline.

Speaker: You know? I feel like that's what I'm doing. And so like, I just think it would be really boring if you knew the end from the get go, you know, like, um. You know, I remember in criminal conduct, 'cause criminal conduct is a great example of this, and I actually had taught a class earlier this year for podcasters that want to do true crime stories about how to structure a series, right? Because it's different. Like when you structure an episode, you, you have to create a plot within that episode, or maybe two episodes, you gotta create a plot. But for like 10 episodes, you have to make sure each episode has a plot. But then you have to make sure the whole season that arc builds to something. You know, because how many of you in chat have you listened to a really great True, true Crime podcast and then towards the end it just kind of fizzles, you know? And like, I'd never want that, right? Like, so I want to make sure that, that it actually builds as it's, it's going on. And so I remember with season one of criminal Conduct, we got a 9 1 1 call. That to me was. Like the, the bombshell. It, it was, we never said that we think that the per the Eli's son was responsible for Eli's murder, but that phone call was so revealing and so that we intentionally left that nine one one call to the very end. Because I just think that if you've heard that at the beginning, you wouldn't care about any of the rest of the story. You know, like you said earlier, I think it has to be entertaining, but also in order to hear the details of the story, you can't know how it ends. I

Katy Watson: Yeah, that one was an interesting, um, story because you, yeah, I, I guess it was 'cause he was a minor. You didn't, you did not say it, but in your, what you didn't say it was quite clear where it was pointing and, uh, yeah. I was just like, man, that's, that's a

Javier: I would love to do a follow up to that season, by the way. 'cause I feel like I just didn't get the answers that I wanted. Um, and, and by the way, in chat people are talking about the Olive Lady, the bore Povi Olives lady. I love that that made it into chat, that that's an episode that you guys enjoyed. I, I enjoyed it too, because it was just so silly.

Speaker: But, uh, that just proves that you don't need this crazy, dramatic story to tell something.

Katy Watson: I can't remember that one. What was that one?

Javier: That was the, the lady from the Maury Povi show where there was a, she was afraid of olives

Katy Watson: yeah,

Javier: and they brought a jar of olives and she freaked out. And the fact that I was able to make a whole episode about that was I, I was impressed.

Speaker: I was impressed. But yeah. Risky Legal Territory in Podcasting

Katy Watson: Okay, so Maureen Tar says, I get nervous sometimes for you when some of your subjects, with some of your subjects affecting your real life, how does your family feel about it?

Speaker: Family Reactions to Podcasting

Javier: Yeah, I, I'm pretty sure my wife, uh, probably wishes she would've married a, like an accountant or, or something. Somebody with like a really boring job, you know? But, you know, she, she met me as a journalist and like, I think she understands, even though this is like a very different world, that, that what she was used to.

Speaker: So she understands this. The kids, they, they don't even think it's cool. Like they, they're just like, whatever, you know? Um, but.

Katy Watson: podcast again?

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I just try to keep it, honestly, I try to keep it out of my personal life. 'cause I, I, I have like these two worlds, you know? But Yeah. But, you know, um, in terms of, I've become way more private because of the podcast.

Speaker: Um, I, I'm very careful what about what I post. And I also have gone through the process of trying to disappear. I did this series called How to Disappear, and I've done things in my personal life, like I'm trying now to move my house into a trust so that, you know, you separate your house from, from, from yourself and then you make it harder for people to find you. And, um, I'm also like, yeah, I, I, I've taken a lot of steps to protect my privacy and I think that's a byproduct of this show for sure.

Katy Watson: Okay. I've got

Javier: of weirdos out

Speaker: Maintaining Neutrality with Difficult Subjects

Katy Watson: from so darn clumsy, and they're saying, how do you maintain neutrality or a sense of rapport with a person when it's revealed that they're an absolute dog? Part of what I love about pretend is that you don't give away too early how things will shake out.

Javier: well, I try not to be too judgmental when I'm, when I'm talking to these people because nobody wants to be talked down to, you know, so I, I just try my very best and I'm not, I'm not like this in my real life. I'm very judgmental in my real life, but, but like on the show, I'm like, I'm trying not to judge you.

Speaker: I've interviewed a serial killer on criminal conduct and that was really tough because I knew the crimes that this guy committed and I tried to have a civil conversation with him, and that was really, really tough. And I just feel like if, if I'm not judgmental, people will tell me more,

Katy Watson: Mm. I think yeah, 'cause

Javier: And that's really hard. But I feel like, I feel like that's some sort of special skill that I have. 'cause people always mention that like. How do you do that? I'm like, I don't know. I just, I could turn off my judgment off, you know?

Katy Watson: All right.

Speaker: Dream Projects and Series Ideas

Katy Watson: Red Hot Dawn says, what would be the top three stories or topics you would love to do long form, full season series on? I dunno if that's in general or whether like you did short ones that you wanna expand on or,

Javier: Well, I'm actually, I'm kind of glad that they asked this because a year ago, almost a year ago, I remember that I made this like proclamation on Patreon saying that I wanted to try out this new series where it had nothing to do with con artists, but it was like, everyone has a story, and I think I was gonna call it speed dial.

Speaker: And let's say I interview you, Katie, you're the first person, and then at the end of the interview I say, pull out your phone and let's find somebody on your phone so that I can talk to next. And then I gotta go talk to that person. And then after that interview, I gotta go talk to somebody on his or her like.

Katy Watson: Yeah. Yeah. I think

Javier: And, and so it, it just keeps going on and on, and I am so nervous about doing that because I wanna make sure that, that I get it right, but I'm also like really scared that I might meet somebody that doesn't have a story and that it's gonna suck. But I really,

Katy Watson: redo the chain.

Javier: yeah. Yeah. But I really wanna do this. I, I'm making a lot of excuses and now I realize that a year went by and I haven't done it, and I need to do it.

Speaker: So hold me, hold me accountable,

Katy Watson: In your 30 minute breaks, you can just like phone a random stranger

Javier: Yeah,

Katy Watson: uh, ask them to tell you a

Javier: exactly.

Katy Watson: But I just, one of those things I, if you did that with me and I'll be like, oh, blah, blah, blah. And then afterwards I'll be like, oh, damn, I should have talked about something else,

Javier: Right.

Katy Watson: but nevermind.

Speaker: Okay. Exciting Upcoming Projects

Katy Watson: Bella Parrot 16 says what's on the horizon for 2026? Any exciting upcoming projects? Oh

Javier: Well, I told you about the psychic one, so that's gonna be the first three series. And then I am also, I started last year, um, a series called The State of Corruption, where I go to, I, I see different states and, and how the state government is, um, corrupt in certain cases. And my next state is the state where I live, North Carolina.

Speaker: 'cause we have tons of local corruption and it's really hard to, to choose. But yeah, I look out for that one. And then I have a real, real bonker story, like, like crazy, crazy story coming up with a caught on camera confessional, which was, when I heard it, I was like, wow. And it is a very twisty story, so I don't want to give it away. But just wait to what? Yeah. Yep.

Katy Watson: Okay, hang on. I'm just looking for something else now. So I will say we've come to the end of the page. We've asked all the questions on the

Javier: Well, that's good. We're almost an

Katy Watson: any, if there's any that have come. 'cause I can't see the, the chat. Um, although I do have two questions myself.

Speaker: Okay.

Javier: Yeah. Go for it. Go for it.

Katy Watson: What was the last movie you saw in a movie theater?

Javier: Oh, in a movie theater, I know that I just finished watching, um, one battle after another, but that was in my living room,

Katy Watson: Oh yeah, same. It was Okay. I won't watch it again. I don't think it's too long.

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: It was all right.

Javier: it. I wanted, I wanted to like it more, um, in the movie theater. Oh my gosh. I don't know. I can't remember. I'll have to have to come back to that one.

Katy Watson: Oh, 'cause you

Javier: need to go to the movie theater. Yeah, that's a problem.

Katy Watson: See, I saw Anaconda. It was very funny. The new one, not the one from

Javier: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. The one with Jack Black.

Katy Watson: yeah, yeah. It was, it was really funny. Okay.

Javier: Yeah, I did see Superman, but, but I've seen movies since then. Uh, I'm just reacting to the jet. Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay. I found another question from H Quis.

Speaker: Pet Peeves in Podcasts

Katy Watson: What are your pet peeves when listening to a podcast? I guess someone else's podcast.

Javier: Ah. Too much, not, not entertaining enough. Like people are like, either take themselves too seriously, or I just, they just talk too much. I like listening to interviews. I'm like, let the people tell the story. You know, like, I know I have narration, but I try to keep the narration to a minimum. Right. The only time you hear my narration is because I could say it quicker than the subject could, but I would rather listen to people talk.

Speaker: I, I, I don't like chatty podcasts either. Like the, like people talking the whole time about what they had for breakfast and like, you know, I don't like that kind of stuff. Um, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, for me it's like if it's boring, I'm out. I'm like, come on, you gotta make it entertaining.

Katy Watson: Yeah. You haven't got time to waste.

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay.

Speaker: Proud Podcast Series

Katy Watson: Um, this is from Natalie Veil. Uh, which series of pretend are you the most proud of? Yeah.

Javier: Hmm. That's a good question. Huh? You know, I really do like the How to Disappear series. I mean, the, the Frank Abne one was, I, I think the Frank Abne one, definitely. Probably because of the research. And I, I, I haven't done that to that scale again because it was just like, I know more about this guy's life than I know about my own.

Speaker: You know, like I could like retrace, like, yeah.

Katy Watson: either.

Javier: And it was just so much fun working with Alan Logan, the author of, uh, you know, that wrote the book about Frank Aow and we just discovered I was able to take like the stuff that he did to another level. Yeah. The Greatest Hook. That's an awesome book.

Speaker: And you marked it up. Um. Yeah, I, I feel like that one's the, a great podcast, but I recently listened to the How to Disappear series, and I was just like, wow, that, that was really good. And very like informational. That's another thing that when you listen to a podcast, well, no, no, not even for me, but like, I'm like, if you listen to a podcast and it doesn't have to be my podcast, you should walk away with learning something new, you know? And I was just like, wow. That one, I felt like people could walk away and they learned a lot from it, you know? And I just thought that was pretty cool.

Katy Watson: Yeah. Although, I dunno, that kind of stuff just gives me anxiety. I'm like, oh my God, I've gotta do all this stuff and then I just don't do anything.

Javier: Yeah, yeah.

Katy Watson: just change my password every once in a while. That's fine.

Javier: Yeah.

Katy Watson: But yeah, I'm like, oh, there's too much to think about.

Javier: It's too much. Yeah, it's very stressful.

Katy Watson: but yeah, so I dunno. I try not to let that kind of thing like it's stress me out too much.

Speaker: Okay. I have a another question. Which of these fandom names is the least cringe? Okay. Friends of pretend or pretend friends. Laver. Lovers. Laver, crs. Javier. Heads. Javi. Airheads. Get it. Airheads. Javier. Heads Get it.

Javier: Oh yeah. You know, that, uh, they used to call me that in college. Javier

Katy Watson: Oh no,

Javier: uh,

Katy Watson: sorry, I won't say that one again.

Javier: and, and then in elementary school some guy called me Javier Lava. Lava bubble bath. So

Katy Watson: Oh,

Javier: cringe too. Yeah,

Katy Watson: I'm kind of on the same track. Or the last one was great pretenders,

Javier: Oh, there was one that was really cringey and I already forgot I repeated it, but it was Javier.

Katy Watson: labor lovers. Labor craver.

Javier: that one's, yeah. Yeah, those two definitely cringey. Yeah.

Katy Watson: Okay. Well the question was, which one was the least cringe? So

Javier: Oh, oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Watson: they were just ones that I thought of in like five minutes. So,

Javier: is so funny.

Katy Watson: okay. Has anyone else asked any questions in the chat? 'cause as I say, I can't see

Javier: Yeah, somebody, I think it was Rebecca asked, how did I hear about LaDonna? Um, actually, um, that story came to me from another podcaster. Her name is Raven. And for some reason she couldn't cover the story.

Katy Watson: That's so Raven.

Javier: Yeah. And just, I did not believe the LaDonna story at first 'cause, just 'cause it sounded so fake. You know, sometimes when it sounds too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

Speaker: But that one just checked out like. And so I just ran with it. But, uh, yeah. And, uh, any news about documentaries was another question that Rebecca asked. I am, this is like a personal ambition for me. I would love to start doing documentaries and I would like to save some stories that instead of putting it on the podcast, like save it for a documentary. And I have made really good relationships with different production companies and I would love to do documentaries again. 'cause that was a lot of fun.

Katy Watson: Okay. I actually have thought of another question. I've seen you doing like various presentations, um, you know, around the world.

Speaker: Dubai Hacker Conference Experience

Katy Watson: Were you in the UAE or Dubai or something like that recently? How was that? Was that good? It was one trip.

Javier: Yeah. Did I tell people about this? I don't know, but it

Katy Watson: posted a picture. I don't think I

Javier: Yeah. Well, I just thought it was really strange that, um, I was invited to go to this hacker conference in Dubai, and I, I never had any intention of going to Dubai. But, uh, I was invited and I'm like, why not?

Speaker: Let's go. And so they wanted me to talk about the Frank ABA mail story. And I'm like, I, I asked my contact several times. I said, because this is, the audience was North Africa and the Middle East. And I, and I wanted to know, first of all, is, is there gonna be a language barrier? And second of all, do they even know who Frank Ow is or catch me if BU can? And the woman that I was dealing with was like, don't worry. They know catch me if bu can they love it. And I'm like,

Katy Watson: Well, I'm

Javier: I'd never,

Katy Watson: that.

Javier: well, no, no, no, no. She wanted me to tell the real story. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, whatever. And so I get to Dubai and I'm really nervous, right? Because now the night, the night before the conference, I realized the culture like shock.

Speaker: Everybody was like, all the Emiratis was dressed in, in their white gowns. And I'm like. I still don't know if they're gonna know who I'm talking about. I'm like, how awkward would it be if I get up there for an hour and talk about this guy? And nobody had heard of him. So I walk into the room and sure enough, everyone in the room were tis like, you know, dressed in the white gowns. And I'm like, I go up into the stage and I go, how many of you have listened or watched the movie? Catch me if you Can. And most of them raised their hands. And I'm like, thank God. I was like, because otherwise this will be a very long conference. And they loved it. And I actually spoke three times and it was a great conference. It was so surreal to be there. It's just, it doesn't seem like a real place, but yeah. Yeah. I have my thoughts about Dubai too. Like, you know, I'm not a big fan of how they run things, but um, but it was, it was cool.

Katy Watson: you weren't invited to the, uh, the comedy festival

Javier: No, I was not

Katy Watson: were on Safer ground.

Javier: Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm not crazy about that, but it was interesting to see it.

Speaker: You know, to, to see it with my own eyes. 'cause I don't think I would've ever gone there, you know, otherwise.

Katy Watson: Okay. I have another question.

Speaker: Podcasting Voice and Personal Reflections

Katy Watson: Um, you obviously have like a really nice podcasting voice, but do you

Javier: Oh, by the way, I didn't get paid, I didn't get paid for the Dubai thing,

Katy Watson: Oh, you didn't.

Javier: No,

Katy Watson: Oh, they

Javier: they, they just, they just, yeah, I just wanted to make that clear that, uh, I did not get like, millions and millions of dollars. Yeah. Sorry.

Katy Watson: go there. You went on your own dime.

Javier: No, no, no, no. They paid for the flight,

Katy Watson: Okay.

Javier: it. That was it. I just wanted to put, I, I just wanted to put that out there that I did not make millions of dollars, but Go on.

Speaker: Sorry, I didn't mean

Katy Watson: Oh, I was just talking about your, um, your voice and how people, you know, love hearing your voice and everything, but do you like the sound of your own voice? 'cause I like talking, but then I probably won't watch this again. 'cause I hate sound of my own

Javier: Well, your voice is

Katy Watson: really nasally and I'm just like, oh my God.

Speaker: That's not what I sound like when I talk. I think I sound like, so anyway, what, what

Javier: Well, because everybody else, everybody hates the sound of their voice. I never loved my look, and I never loved my voice. And, and that's because everybody, you know, nobody likes looking at themselves on camera and all that. And I had the opportunity to be a reporter, you know, in front of the camera for local news.

Speaker: And I just always wanted to be behind the scenes. And when I came up with this idea for the podcast, I wanted somebody else to voice it, but I was like, nobody's gonna be available to voice it. I, I'm the one that's available. So I just had to suck it up. And it was so funny. The other day I aired one of the Word of Faith episodes again, and I listened to the difference in my voice, and it sounded so dramatic and

Katy Watson: I didn't think it sounded that bad.

Javier: I don't know. But, but it was shocking to me to hear how much my style has changed, you know?

Katy Watson: That was also a good series, I think. Was that the first one that you did?

Javier: Yeah. Um, I did my cousin first, but I aired the word of faith first, like the very first thing I, yeah. Mm-hmm. But, um, stay tuned because there is a word of faith related episode coming up

Katy Watson: Oh good. Yeah. That's a good, it's a, if you haven't heard it, go and listen to it 'cause it's very good. Yeah.

Speaker: Word of Faith Fellowship Update

Javier: And I might be traveling out there at the end of the month because the, the district attorney for the word of that's supposed to be, uh, trying the word of faith case is on trial himself.

Speaker: They're gonna try to determine whether they're gonna, um, either remove him from that case or remove him as da. So that's happening at the end of the month. So I'm probably gonna be seeing old friends from the word of faith fellowship.

Katy Watson: Hey, that was, were they the ones that also had that, um, restaurant or was that a

Javier: Oh, yeah. Oh no, that was a different one.

Katy Watson: Oh, that's a different one. Yeah. So I was like,

Javier: I ever say this?

Katy Watson: and it was really funny. I can't remember what that was out.

Speaker: Cult Restaurant Experience

Javier: So I don't know if I ever said this on the podcast, but I actually took my kids there to eat at the restaurant. 'cause I wanted, I wanted to observe the restaurant. And I'm like, Hey, do you know where we're at? And they're like, no. We're like, we're at a cult restaurant. And they thought they love telling their friends that story.

Speaker: So my dad took me to a cult restaurant, you know?

Katy Watson: Nice. Yeah, I don't think my kids would care. It's like, as long as they had like burgers, they were just like, not give a crap. They'd be like, okay, great. What's a cult? But, um, yeah. Okay.

Javier: That was called the Yellow Deli,

Katy Watson: ah, and who was that again? What was the,

Javier: Oh,

Katy Watson: I can't remember who the

Javier: can't remember. I, I might get it wrong if I

Katy Watson: Yeah. But I think you went with a friend and I just remember 'cause you were, you were both like, quite nervous about being there and then it was just like a regular restaurant and it was,

Javier: It was just a regular restaurant. Yeah.

Katy Watson: that was good. Okay. Well, as I say, I don't, I've finished, um, the questions on the list. So if anyone,

Javier: that's pretty solid. That, that was like an hour's worth of questions. And by the way, I hate talking about myself, right? So like, this is cool that, uh, that, that we did this and it's a once in a blue moon type of thing,

Katy Watson: oh. In case anyone's wondering, why don't you tell them what that blue thing you're holding is?

Javier: oh yeah, my toys.

Speaker: Physical Therapy Toys

Javier: So, um, for those of you who are watching the live, I broke my arm, uh, not too long ago. Here's the scar. Got a giant plate on my, broke my radius. And so I've been doing a lot of physical therapy and exercises. And so this is my, uh, this is my finger stretching thing where. This is the little donut thing where I like squeeze, but I love my toys.

Speaker: Now I, I, I was showing Katie my toys before this

Katy Watson: I didn't see that finger stretching one before. I don't think I would've

Javier: Oh, I didn't

Katy Watson: that one the first time.

Javier: so this is my, uh, my blue putty, which is kind of cool that that's fun. But then I graduated to the green putty, which the physical therapist says I never give away the green putty because it's a lot harder.

Katy Watson: oh.

Javier: So I just squeeze this all day, and I'm just trying to regain my strength.

Speaker: So I have a lot of mobility, but I, I still can't, um, lift more than like five pounds. So I'm constantly,

Katy Watson: worse than me.

Javier: playing around with these toys, so I apologize for that. I've, I've kind of forgot that, uh, that I do that now. I just do it outta habit. But Katie, thank you so much. I, I think you rocked this thing.

Speaker: I know I reached out to you out of the blue and you were so kind to say yes to doing this, but I think you actually did an awesome job, so I'm so glad that I Katie's YouTube Channel Plug

Katy Watson: just give a quick plug because my friend will, um, right. First of all, if she's still here, I'll say, hi, Katrina. If you're still here, I don't know. But also, um, as I say, I, I write scripts for YouTuber called Simon Whistler, and another writer for him is called Dave Page, who's also known as Blind Dave because he's blind.

Speaker: And his name is Dave. Uh, he has a YouTube channel called Blind Dave, and I'm a guest on a semi-regular. A set of YouTube videos and it's called Only in the uk. And I said, I would mention it, it's not particularly popular,

Javier: well, I'll, I'll definitely, I'll definitely include it.

Katy Watson: Oh, thank you.

Javier: it in the show notes too. Yeah.

Katy Watson: a load of people.

Speaker: It's only tangentially related to the UK at this point. Um, but yeah, we just talk about whatever, so.

Javier: Well that's awesome, Katie.

Speaker: Technical Difficulties and Audience Interaction

Javier: I think I struck out, so now you're a regular on two different shows, so you're, you're always welcome to come back here and, uh, thank you so much and, and hopefully we could do this again with other Patreon supporters and hopefully if anybody's listening and knows how to do YouTube lives without screwing them up all the time, I would, uh, love, love your help, but, uh, I really thought it was gonna work this time.

Speaker: I really did. I felt so confident,

Katy Watson: Well, it did eventually,

Javier: it worked. Yeah, we hacked it.

Speaker: thank you for everyone who hung around, uh, with the technical difficulties and also like was interacting in chat. It was so much fun. I feel like we're hanging out. It's kinda like when we do those Patreon feet, uh, episode drops, those are. Those are like the highlight for me, like

Katy Watson: Oh

Javier: watching it or listening to the episode with all my Patreon supporters. So I appreciate it.

Speaker: Season 25 Announcement

Javier: Thank you guys so much, and, uh, stay tuned because the new series Season 25, could you Believe that Season 25 begins next week?

Speaker: So stay tuned for that, Katie, I appreciate it. Thank you so

Katy Watson: Thank you for asking me.

Javier: Yeah.

Speaker: Ending the Stream

Javier: All right, I'm gonna end the stream now. Take care, guys.