S308: The Prophet - Meet Cult Leader Jane Whaley Part 3

Inside Edition: They say they are following God's will, but are they really abusing children? We'll have a shocking investigation. Inside Edition right now. Raising the rafters in this church, trying to scare the devil out of these kids with a bizarre form of prayer. But is it spiritual healing or downright child abuse?

Javier: I got hit so hard one time that I almost flew over the

Inside Edition: desk. If you look at the kids' faces, it's really quite fascinating. They're dead

Javier: This is Papa Bear Bill O'Reilly, host of Inside Edition back in 1995.

Inside Edition: Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly, reporting from the Simpson trial. Thank you for watching Inside Edition today. Over the years, we've investigated a number of religious organizations. Not traditional ones so much, but fringe religions. Some of them can be dangerous. Today we'll take a look at a religious sect that may be abusing children. Inside Edition has been exposing corrupt televangelists for years, but what we're about to show you goes far beyond religious fraud. With the help of the Dallas-based Trinity Foundation, we've been investigating a religious group based in North Carolina, and what Steve Wilson discovered is very disturbing. Roberta Priest knows. She worked in the nursery where, no matter how young or fussy, children who are brought here are regularly restrained with their bed sheets at the direction of church leaders. The screams you hear are the prayers they're subjected to in a nearby bathroom when they won't sit completely still. Why tie

Archival: them up?

Inside Edition: Because they got out of their chairs if you didn't. And, and according to Jane, that was the restraints of God. In fact, uh, something was said about how we tie the children up in the, in the nursery, and she came back within the next day or two saying, "Don't ever say that. Just say that's their seat belts."

Javier: When I spoke to Jane about the Inside Edition report, she told me that the Trinity Foundation who did the reporting took the video out of context and smeared her and her church And that was the last time Jane Whaley ever allowed a member of the media to speak with her directly. So why me? And why now? I asked Jane this same question, and she told me that God spoke to her after listening to my show. She wanted to reach out to me, but she just didn't know how. Hmm. She told me that the closest that they've ever gotten to talking with the media was when a BBC reporter approached her about a story. She said he was very nice, just like me, but in the end, they decided it wasn't right. Then, most recently, an A&E documentary crew asked to interview Jane and to bring cameras into the church. Jane flat out said no because they weren't interested in the truth. Her lawyers told me that the TV crew and former members showed up unannounced at church members' businesses and started causing a spectacle just to make good television. That series premieres this November and is called The Devil Next Door on A&E. So here I am. The church service just ended. Everyone is leaving the main sanctuary. Am I done here? Or will Jane Whaley agree to talk with me? I'm Javier Leva, and this is Pretend Radio, Season 3, The Prophet. Nolan and I are in the car making our way back to Raleigh after my visit inside the Word of Faith Fellowship. I'm trying to figure out if this is our exit. It must be the next one, 55. He wants to know everything that happened in that private meeting with Jane and Sam. I tell Nolan that after the church service was over, we walked back to Jane's office, and she directed me to sit on a loveseat next to Sam Whaling. Jane takes the golden ornate chair to my right, and next to her are her two attorneys. So basically, I give them my background. I tell them that I have a background in journalism and that Pretend Radio is really just my hobby. A serious hobby, but still, I like to hold myself accountable just like any other journalist. They wanted to know, do I, do I inject my own personal opinions into the show? And I, and I tell them that I really try not to. What I like to do is represent both sides, and that's why I'm so happy that they invited me to their church because I feel like for the first time

Nolan Ether: I could, I could really tell their side of the story

Javier: Keep in mind, I'm just sitting here side by side with Jane Wheler in her office. It's just me and Jane, Sam, and her lawyers. Oh, and the woman that watches Louie the dog. So you remember the little dog Louie? Well, his caretaker was in the corner of the room listening to our conversation the whole time, and her job was to, to, you know, wrangle Louie.

Nolan Ether: I get right to it.

Javier: You know, I asked her about the, the tapes where she says, "Throw him to the ground and get his devils out."

Nolan Ether: Exactly.

Javier: I was able to... I asked her that, and she actually quoted herself verbatim. She didn't deny that the recording was false. She was just adding a little bit of context to it. She says, "Throwing somebody down is a religious term that they use, you know, as a form of praying. Like, somebody could be on the ground praying. It wasn't like a violent thing. It was just like throw him to the ground and pray, and the way they pray is by screaming."

Jane Whaley: Why didn't you get him and throw him to the ground and get

Nolan Ether: his devils out? Doesn't he say something? He, he pu- he pushes back on her in the call though saying something about if you, you hit the wall on the way down, that that's not... Right?

John David Cooper: Right, but it's not right to use force like that. That's what I... That could have caused further-

Jane Whaley: We need to be serving God today. That's the goal for, for not least to achieve. As the government steps we can now do

Javier: Yes, and Jane described to me today, and she said that John Cooper, uh, claims that, you know, like, that one of the brothers w- went through the wall. Well, Jane says that they were just a rowdy bunch. They were a very rambunctious brothers,

Nolan Ether: always fighting, and one of them... They would get very physical with each other, and they threw one ag- uh, another against the wall.

Javier: Jane explains to me that she would never condone violence.

Nolan Ether: She says that, uh,

Javier: there was a woman that accused Jane of beating her for th- 20 minutes in her office, the very office that we were sitting at. And she goes, "How could I have done that? She was way bigger than me. She could have overpowered me, and for 20 minutes? It doesn't make sense." You know, like, Jane disputed all these claims of abuse. She says, "We have a screaming prayer, right? But we never get physical. In fact, all we do is lightly touch you on the shoulder. And we encourage people not to get caught up in the moment." Because she says that when you feel that, that you become o- overcome with emotions, and you kind of lose some self-control, and some people could get carried away. And she ex- uh, uh, she explained that, yes, you know, sometimes it, it might get physical, but they encourage it not to, right?

Nolan Ether: So if it's gotten physical in the past, and to the, to, to the... It's gotten physical in the past to the degree that they've been under scrutiny to the extent that they have. Why would they just remove the physical aspect of it altogether and just- She,

Javier: she says she doesn't condone it. I mean, she, she... That's not something that, that, that is practiced. Jane gave me an example. She says that sometimes her ministers will place their hands on someone's head, but they would never shake it violently side to side or back and forth. I think she felt the need to demonstrate this for me. And to my surprise, she grabbed my head, grabbed my head, and she goes, "W- " and shook it, and she says, "We don't do that."

Nolan Ether: Even the tapping, the holding, none of that now?

Javier: Yeah. She claims that none of that is, is part of their practice. She says that it's strictly, uh, that blasting prayer. And, and can we talk about that for a second? Like, I asked her about blasting and, and where did that terminology come, come from? Because she explained that when she was in Oklahoma studying under that ministry, that, um, that she discovered there was a woman there that was, uh... She said she was, she was really ill. And, and, and Jane just became overwhelmed by, by the situation. And, and she felt that it was on, in, on the inside, and all she could do was cry for this woman. And she cr- Right over this woman, and she cried, and it turned into this scream where, where it's a blasting. And, and, and she, she referenced in the Bible where you have to, uh, blast somebody in order to get the devils out. And then by blasting this woman, she felt like she was healed by Jane blasting. And I think that that was, like, a big turning point for Jane when she felt like, "You know what? I'm not just a religious person. I'm not just the wife of a preacher. I am the prophet." I think that was a big moment for Jane, and that's when they separated from that Word of Faith movement that started in Oklahoma. I asked Jane if her church had any connections with Kenneth Hagin's ministry back in Oklahoma. She quickly shut me down. She said, "No, none."

Nolan Ether: So yes, they're both called Word of Faith, but this form of religion that, that I saw today, that I witnessed, was really Jane's interpretation of the Bible. The

Javier: blasting prayer, that was something that Jane came up with. Jane recited the verse in the Amplified translated version of the Bible that references the word blasting. She was really, really into it. Maybe a little too into it.

Nolan Ether: You know, I've heard blasting prayers. My audience, you guys have heard the blasting prayers on tape.

Inside Edition: They're not gonna steal our families and cheat us.

Nolan Ether: A- a- and let me tell you something. What I just experienced, what happened next blew me away

Javier: As she explains blasting to me, Jane's facial expression changes. Suddenly, this sweet little old lady who was smiling the whole time stops talking and freezes. She sat up slowly and straightened up her spine. She opened up her eyes as wide as she could and filled her stomach with air. I play this scene in my head a lot, sometimes in my dreams. I remember it all in slow motion. Jane opens up her mouth and, without warning, releases a deep throat scream. She began performing a blasting prayer directed squarely at me. Her face, I mean, she was very sweet this whole time. I told you how sweet she was, and her face suddenly changed. Like, it got really serious really fast and without warning. And it almost, like, looked like she unhinged her jaw, which I know that she didn't, but, like, that's the way I remember it. And she shot out this scream that I have never heard come out of a human before. It was, it was from her belly. So that's why when I tell you that it felt like she unhinged her jaw, she was, like, alm- almost opening up her throat and letting it all out, and it came directly at my face. And I... It was, it was, for the first time ever there... You know, when I walked in, I was very nervous, and quickly that went away. All of a sudden, when I, when she is blasting at me, I gotta tell you that that was pretty scary. Just the look in her face and the sheer volume that was directed at me, that really freaked me out. But, and, and that was a big moment, because I've always read and I've always heard from everyone that they don't blast to, you know, people outside the church. You know, especially, like, a reporter. And I th- and I looked at, at the lawyers, and you could tell that they were not expecting that. Um, you know, I think Jane may have been sharing more than, than what they were comfortable with. Yeah.

Nolan Ether: So let me get this straight. She said, "We don't do this," and then she grabbed your head physically-

Javier: Yes, and shook it ...

Nolan Ether: shook it- Sh- ... like, with her hand back and forth, shook your head-

Javier: Yes ...

Nolan Ether: and screamed, uh- The- ... the blasting prayer like you've heard over the recording.

Javier: Yeah, but it wasn't at the same time. So she was trying- Okay to make some contrast, right? So she was trying to say, "We don't do this," and she shook my head.

Nolan Ether: Okay.

Javier: Right? 'Cause that's what, I guess, you, you're picturing in your head when you think of, like, televangelists and stuff like that. There was none of that. There was none of that, and she was trying to make a point. What she does, and what they do, is that they blast and they scream, and it w- uh, i- it's hard for me to explain. You almost have to hear it. I've never heard anyone scream like that. It wasn't like in a concert or like I would imagine at the Ed Sullivan Theater when The Beatles came. It wasn't that kind of scream.

Nolan Ether: What was she saying? Like, what were the words or sound-

Javier: There was no words ... there- This was ... It was, it was, there were no words. It was a constant pitch. It was a, a, a steady pitch that was so loud. I mean, you know? Like, I,

Nolan Ether: I would- I ... And some, somehow in my mind I'm imagining, and maybe it's because of the recording, I'm imagining more of a scream. This is just a, a volume just-

Javier: I think some people- ...

Nolan Ether: a yell more.

Javier: Yeah. I think some people, from what I heard from the recording, I think everybody has their own signature, um, blasting prayer. But what I heard was the original blasting prayer. You know what I mean? Like, this was, like, the prototype. And, and it was unlike anything I've ever heard or experienced in my life.

Nolan Ether: Wow.

Javier: Actually, now that I think about it, I have heard people scream like this before. Imagine a heavy metal singer screaming into a microphone. Yeah! Now imagine a little old lady doing that. What a day. We drove back home exhausted after chasing this story for almost 19 hours. The next day, I called up John Huddle to tell him all about my experience inside the church. John Huddle, if you remember from earlier in the season, is a former Word of Faith Fellowship member who is a very vocal critic of the church.

Inside Edition: So, all right, so let me tell you about

Javier: my day because I think, um, I want, I want you to hear it, but I also want you to chime in and kind of, um, shine some light into what I experienced. I gave John a play-by-play of my day.

Archival: Who, who... You said us. Who, who did the, who went with

Javier: you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. My, uh, my friend Nolan, he just dropped me off. So the game plan was, you know- I spared no details. -he dropped me off. I kind of, I've been describing this, John, to people as if I were, uh, I was in war for several years, and I returned home to my family, and that was the kind of- That was the kind of greeting that I got.

John Huddle: It's called love bombing.

Javier: I tell him about the service.

John Huddle: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To the nations, to the nations.

Javier: Okay, so you know that tune.

John Huddle: Okay.

Javier: Then I tell him about Jane's unimpressive sermon. And then this was a very surprising, very, very surprising. This is when I started learning about the dynamics here. You know, I thought that, that her, uh, her sermon would be, like, her thing, you know? Like that- Right ... hey, you know, this is where, this is, this is what she's good at. This is how she got everybody to follow her, you know, 'cause she's such a dynamic speaker, and she could deliver a hell of a sermon, you know? And, uh, and then, but, but that's not what happened. What happened was that she kept flipping- Right through the Bible and picking random one-line verses from the Bible, and so, like, everybody was struggling to follow her. It was just like, "All right, uh, John verse whatever." Right. And then she would read the line, and then everybody would flip. But she was going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and there was no real clear message in, in her, in her sermon, and she almost seemed either unprepared or nervous. Right. And that really actually surprised me because then I realized at that moment that that's not her thing. That's probably Sam's thing. Her thing is control and power, and she, she's more into the what happens outside of the church than she is in the part where the preacher usually shines.

John Huddle: In years past, she would have a more logical presentation, but as... There were, there were times when it did not seem logical at all. It did not seem to flow, and it did not seem as if she was comfortable doing what she was doing That didn't stop her from doing it

Javier: I tell John that there's one thing that I still don't understand. After visiting the church, how could everyone in the crowd look so genuinely happy? And one of my observations, and this is what I'm struggling with, right? One of my observations is that when I walked in there and I looked around the room and I saw all those people singing, I mean, I looked all around that room. And I know that they strategically sat me in the front so I couldn't observe the crowd much, but I did see very genuine smiles and people were really into it. And it seemed very sincere. And I find it hard in my head to believe that the people that I saw were being, you know, psychologically abused, physically abused. How do I reconcile that?

John Huddle: choices that they make outside of that place, where to live, what to wear, what to drive, where to go to school, whether or not they can see their other relatives, how they treat their children, how they decorate their home. They don't have those choices. Those choices come from the top. So what you were seeing was it's a bubble. And inside that building, they're protected. They're not, for the most part, having to make a decision to, again, check out with so-and-so what painting they're supposed to put in their living room or what carpet they're supposed to put in their house or brick they're putting on their house or The human mind is durable and can rationalize anything.

Javier: According to John Huddle, I'm thinking about this all wrong. They never really have a choice but to be happy. The scene that I described to you, would you consider that a typical Sunday service? Or do you feel like maybe that was a little special just because I was there?

John Huddle: All the singing That can happen every Sunday. So yes, that was a, that service was ordered for you and the family members that were there that were not a part of the church.

Javier: So you're saying that those guests that, that stood up were really not guests?

John Huddle: No, no, I'm saying they were guests, but because of them and you, you got the sanitized version. They were not gonna show you any of the quote, unquote correction or rebuke or embarrassment- Mm or calling out somebody for breaking a rule.

Javier: Mm.

John Huddle: Those, that can happen in those open meetings.

Javier: Then I told John Huddle that Jane invited me into her office for a private on the record meeting. I said, you know, "I tried to make my case," and I said, "You know, I wanna tell your side of the story." And then Josh stopped me and he said, "Listen, we've heard that before. You know, this is not the first time we've heard some reporter come here and tell us that they wanna tell our side of the story." You know, Jane proceeded to tell me everything, every controversy that has ever happened, from the Brazilians. She said that those Brazilians that were, uh, making those accusations, that they're lazy. She said that in Brazil they have servants, and so they come here and then you ask them to do something and, and they think they're slaves. And, I mean, Sam, uh, ignited into like this belly laugh, you know? "They're so lazy," you know? Um, "They don't know what hard work is," you know? Uh, they ... Oh man, they kept bringing up homosexuality, I mean, over and over again. It wasn't just in this meeting. It was almost, like, right at the top and during the service and after the service. They were, they wanted to m- for me to m- know that they like gay people.

Archival: No, shut up. I'm getting up, sitting down. Are you serious?

Javier: Yeah. Oh my God, they kept saying they, they're like, "We love gay people." So you wanna hear this story? You're gonna like this one. Yeah. So she said, she goes, "We love gay people." She goes, "I have a friend, he's not even in the church, and you know, he's ... I go to his house and I do all these floral arrangements for him and, you know, he's, he's fantastic. But you know, he was marrying another man. And you won't believe this, but he actually asked if I could marry them. And I'm like, 'Oh, Javier, I can't marry them. We have different beliefs.' But oh, he insisted. He said, 'Oh, Jane, that's just a loose interpretation of the Bible.'" And she goes, "Oh, I, I just didn't know what to do." So, so she goes, "Thank God I had a trip planned during that time." Like almost implying, like- Javier ... almost implying like she would've- Javier Yeah.

John Huddle: You've got some golden stuff right here

Javier: I described to John the moment in Jane's office when she performed the blasting prayer at me. When she was demonstrating the blasting, her... She was very warm the whole time, and then all of a sudden her face changed. It, it dramatically changed. Right. It's almost like, uh- Right ... she had to get into this mental state in order to do it.

John Huddle: Right. It was like the alien.

Javier: Yeah. And then, and then, and almost like she extended her neck and, uh-

John Huddle: Yeah ...

Javier: puffed her chest. And, and, and then out from, like, the inside of her, you know, like deep in her belly came out this loud, loud, deep, c- constant pitch noise directed at my face, and I've never heard, uh, another person make this noise before. And that was- Right ... that was a little terrifying. Because I didn't expect it. Right. And I guess my question to you is, how unusual is it for, for someone like me to have personally experienced a blasting prayer?

John Huddle: I don't know of anybody else she's demonstrated it to on the outside. Of course, I don't know everything about her. I don't know everybody she's talked to.

Javier: Right.

John Huddle: You're the first person that I know of that's in your position as a reporter that, uh, has, she has demonstrated that to.

Javier: And, and let's talk about that, too. Like, how unusual is it that I, a reporter, was invited to this service? Is that typical?

John Huddle: They've refused a lot of people that demonstrate that. And like Josh said, there's been others that have tried to come in there. I knew the VB- BBC was there. But like Josh said, they didn't demonstrate to them. So it's very... It's un- I'd say, I'd say it's very unusual for you to go in there and have that happen.

Javier: And I don't know what it was. I, I, I still don't know w- why I was invited. You know, like, why me? Um, I was very surprised to have been invited, and I actually vocalized that. I said, "Jane, I'm, I was really genuinely surprised that you wrote back." And, and Josh Farmer, her attorney, chimed in quickly, and he goes, "Me too." But there was one thing that Jane told me during our private meeting that really left me feeling numb. I needed John Huddle's help to understand This is something that's really bothered me the whole time since I left, okay? Okay. And I wanna, I want, I wanna see if you could shed some light into this. And she said something that really kind of s- like, you know, kind of, um, surprised me. She said that, "Listen, Javier, I invited you here because I wanted you to see the truth. I wanted you... I knew that you were deceived by the devil, and I wanted you to see the truth for yourself, and that's why I invited you here. But what I don't need is for you to save me." She goes, "I know we're persecuted, and I n- and I expect that. I expect to be persecuted, and I know that it's only gonna get worse." And she goes, "It, it was..." And this is where I need your help, but she was almost saying, like, the end is coming, and they're almost, like, gearing up for, like, this holy war. Oh. And she said, "But we're not there yet. But it's coming, and I don't need you to tell my side of the story." It's almost like w- we expect it. What d- what do you think she meant by that?

John Huddle: Jane sees this cloud of federal charges on the horizon, horizon. Four members have already been charged. Two pled guilty, two did not, pled not guilty. And you know the federal government is continuing to move forward She is preparing her people for more, quote-unquote, "attacks" from the world, from the devil. And combine what she's told you with Sam's statement, "We're never gonna retire," um, and with the understanding that they're heavily armed She is leaving her options open for defending herself. Does that what, is that what's bothering you? Does that, does that-

Javier: Yeah ... she- That's, that's what's bothering me because, you know, I, I think what I, I really wanna believe that they are just a misunderstood church with really weird quirks, and that maybe that there's some, uh, some situations that have gotten out of hand. You know, like, and I, I want to believe that, right? Because it, like, the truth is somewhere in the middle, right?

John Huddle: Right.

Javier: But that m- from, in that moment, it, it, I felt like I was talking more to an Al-Qaeda, you know, suicide fighter or something rather than, you know, a normal church preacher.

John Huddle: Right. She is conditioning her people to be prepared for they don't know what, but it will be... When Jane feels like it is that time, she will marshal her troops inside that church, and they will do what they've got to do to defend their rights to be who they wanna be. And if that, if that means violence, I believe, I believe from what the statement you just said and from what I know other people have said, I believe it could come to that

Javier: Gee, wow. You know, uh, you know, because I described to you my, my nature of trying to, like, normalize them, that, that really did bother me, and, um, and I never even considered... You know, I know that we c- call them a cult, right? And they exhibit all these signs of a cult. Um, but in my head, I never even drew that conclusion that the way some cults end, you know? Right. And, like, do you ever think that maybe, I mean, that they could go the way of, you know, of other cults where they, they commit mass suicide? Or, like, what's the end look like?

John Huddle: After hearing what you said and knowing how meticulous and deliberate she is with her words I'm concerned.

Archival: Hmm.

John Huddle: Jane does not say things lightly. She has a purpose in everything she says. If there's one thing I can say about that woman is that she controls her most of the time, except when... Rarely have I ever seen her say something that she regrets or was not planned. She's very calculating And for her to say that to you is disturbing me

Javier: Yeah. And you know, I, I wa- You know, that's the thing. I, I didn't record it and, and I was taking it all in, and I don't want to embellish, you know? Like I wanna be very careful, 'cause I felt like that was the biggest revealing moment of, of the day. Right. Um, everything else I had heard, everything else I anticipated her responses, right? Uh, but that, she said, I, I know for a fact that she said, "We're not there yet." But it's like they're gearing up for it, right? Like they're prepared to fight this holy war. Let

John Huddle: me tell you something. And

Javier: she didn't say holy war, you know, but that's the way, that's how I interpreted, right?

John Huddle: But I think from what you're saying, and what I, what I'm understanding, is that Jane feels like there's another confrontation with authority

Javier: coming. And he's right. As you will soon learn in the last episodes of this season, five church members are facing trial for allegedly beating and kidnapping a gay teen by the name of Matthew Fenner. It's not gonna be easy to make all this go away. The

John Huddle: events that are gonna unfold over the next few months, and they're not persecution, they're execution of the law in this country, and the investigators have taken almost two years, and it can, it, it may be up to two years before anything major happens.

Javier: Yeah. And you said that they're heavily armed. I've heard that before, but, um, don't know much about it.

John Huddle: There was a time period when they took 40 people over to Wayne Hall's house and did target shooting practice, and they got concealed carry permits, and there are some people that tell me that Ray Farmer has a room in his home that's just full of guns, and, um, so that switched. That was not like that when I was there. We weren't even allowed to carry a pocket knife on church property. Now they carry guns

Javier: My private conversation with Jane Sam and her two attorneys lasted about an hour and a half. About an hour into our meeting, I realized that I was getting nowhere with these guys. I had what I needed. Once I realized that she was not interested in doing a recorded interview, I got up. I'm like, "You know what? I'm not gonna waste my time, right? I mean, you made it pretty clear that you don't want to be interviewed." So I got up and I said, "Thank you so much for the invitation. I had a-- It was a wonderful service. It was great meeting, you know, L- the dog Louie. It was good meeting your daughter Robin." And, you know, I, I got up and I-- it was very clear that I was trying to wrap things up, and, uh, they would not get up. They didn't get up. And that was a moment where I was like, "Wait a minute. What's going on here?" You know? Like, "What, what's happening?" So I sat back down and we talked some more. I kept pressing Jane to let me record. She said she wasn't ready. She did, however, say that her two attorneys could speak on her behalf, and they stumbled around for a minute and then finally said that they wanted to think about it first. So I got up again, and this time I was allowed to leave. Josh Farmer, the attorney, offered me a ride. I said, "No, thank you. My friend Nolan's coming to pick me up." And then he asked me if Nolan and I had picked a safe word, and I chuckled and I said, "Safe word? I thought this was a friendly meeting." Anyway, so we went outside and waited for Nolan to pick me up. A few days later, I get an email from one of the attorneys, Mark Norris, and it reads, "Dear Javier, thank you again for coming to our church this past Sunday. I really enjoyed meeting you. After a prayerful consideration, we do not believe that God is leading us to participate in your podcast. Now that you have met us and attended our church service, our hope is that you have seen firsthand our sincerity and our love, and after speaking with us, we hope that you understand that these allegations against us are not true in any way. Thank you very much for your time. Sincerely, Mark Norris." Mark Norris left Jane out of the email chain, so I replied and I copied Jane back in, and I wrote, "Hi, Jane. Thank you for getting back to me. As you can imagine, I am deeply disappointed by your decision. I felt we made great progress on Sunday. In fact, just the act of you allowing me to visit your church instantly brought credibility to your side of the argument. I had reporters calling me asking me, 'Is Word of Faith really as bad as we, the media, portray them to be?' And I gave them an honest answer. I told them that I was really surprised by your friendliness and your hospitality, and that I only saw genuinely happy adults and children. Unfortunately, the public can only take my word for it, and despite my great visit, I need some more convincing myself. Your invitation made a great impact, but it's not enough. I hope you reconsider. Thank you." Jane replied, "Thank you very much. It is up to Josh and Mark. As I said before, it was a pleasure meeting you. Thank you again for coming. Much love." And that was the last time that I ever heard from Jane Whaley Next time on Pretend Radio, Christina Bryant is going undercover inside the Word of Faith Fellowship. She's wearing a hidden microphone.

Archival: This is Christina Bryant. I'm getting ready to meet with Jane Whaley.

Javier: It's been six years since she last stepped foot in the church. You see, Christina is a former member who has been excommunicated and is forbidden to contact her family.

Archival: I mean, I loved my family deeply, so I never, ever got over losing them by leaving.

Javier: If she ever wants to speak with her mother and family again, she's gonna have to go through Jane first. But why wear a hidden microphone? Why not just walk in there and meet Jane?

Archival: I had my own axe to grind, and I definitely wanted to talk to Jane and see my family, but I also wanted to help get evidence and proof of the wrongdoing that happens there.

Javier: Christina is about to go face-to-face with the real Jane Whaley. You see, when I interviewed Jane, I got to see the political side of Jane Whaley, the Jane Whaley she wants the world to meet. Christina, on the other hand, is about to talk to the real Jane Whaley, the one everyone fears, and she got it all on tape. Here's Jane talking about why she didn't report an incident involving sexual abuse to the police.

Archival: My question is, if that did happen, why didn't you report it to the police? Because that's... You have to. Like, if-

Jane Whaley: I don't have to.

Archival: You don't have

Jane Whaley: to? It's ministerial confidentiality.

Archival: Oh, okay.

Jane Whaley: In North Carolina, you don't have to.

Javier: That's next time on Pretend Radio. Hey everyone. I hope you're enjoying this season. I just wanted to let you know that I'm taking the next two weeks off just to celebrate the holidays and to catch up on editing. But don't worry, there's more to come. As soon as this next episode is finished, I will post it on Patreon. My Patreon supporters will be the first to hear it. Plus, there's a whole lot I had to cut out of this three-hour undercover tape. I'll be posting bonus content on Patreon, and you don't want to miss it. "Javier, what's this Patreon thing you keep talking about?" Well, it's a way to support the show. So if you want to help, go to pretendradio.org and click the donate button. That will take you to the Patreon page. I also want to take the time to thank all the former members who have listened to this show and have written me emails, Facebook messages about their experience at the Word of Faith Fellowship. Also, I know that there are current members listening right now, and if you feel you're in danger or just need someone to talk to, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. They're available to talk 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and they can help you find a place to stay near Spindale while you figure things out. Or you can contact the Citizens Against Corruption and Abuse, area code 828-289-7923. I'll put this information in my show notes. And now check out these promos from these awesome podcasts. From the earliest British settlements on the shores of Virginia to the treacherous swamps of Louisiana and the isolated mountains of Appalachia, the American South has a rich history filled with eerie legends and mysterious hauntings. Join me, Brandon Schexnayder, as I journey into its underbelly, exploring these tales of loss and heartbreak, tortured souls and spirits of the past, documenting ghost stories and legends amidst rich soundscapes and an eerie original soundtrack that can only be found on my podcast, Southern Gothic.

Archival: 911, what's your emergency? Every 60 seconds, a person is murdered somewhere in the world. There was a shootout in my house. I can't believe this. What causes ordinary people to do unthinkable things? He stabbed me in my neck. And he says, "Look how easily I could kill you." The Minds of Madness is a true crime podcast that examines the most disturbing criminal minds. We shed a light on the devastating impact these violent crimes have on the victims and their families. When you get calls in the night, you know they're not good or they're wrong numbers. You'll hear about the incredible strength of the survivors and what they did to fight back. I was studying his face because I was thinking, "If I get out of this, I'm gonna get you someday." Subscribe to The Minds of Madness podcast today on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and Google Play.