The Gypsy Rose Obsession, Part 4

Javier: I don't like to make people cry, though, so don't worry. I'm not gonna make you cry, Fancy.

Fancy: Oh, don't worry about it. I, I'm good.

Javier: This is Fancy Macelli. She simply goes by Fancy. Just Fancy. Fancy says she discovered Gypsy's story around the time the HBO Documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest premeired.

Speaker: HBO Doc Mommy Dead and Dearest: People thought of us as the sweetest mother, daughter, best people in the world

Fancy: Mommy Dead and Dearest came up on my feed for Facebook. So I very much identified with the story of this overbearing mother and this child who had gone through with that and everything. So I started figuring out that there were Facebook groups. about Gypsy Rose. and I met Kristy, which is Gypsy's stepmother, in this group,

Javier: Fancy Macelli, says joined a Facebook group about Gypsy Rose. In that group, she met Kristy Blanchard, Gypsy's stepmother. I contacted J- uh, Kristy. She messages me back, and I'm, like, freaking out that she messages me back, you know, 'cause I'm like, "Oh my God. I did not expect this." You know, I basically just said, "Hey, I'm a small-time producer. Um, I do scripted series," and I thought maybe because the documentary's not everybody watches documentaries, maybe a scripted series would help, uh, explain this. And just like that... Fancy wiggled her way into the Gypsy Blanchard case.. Let's talk about Fancy.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Oh, Lord.

Javier: Tell me about Fancy.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: So she's a character. Um, so Fancy had came in the, the picture in, I wanna say 2017, and she reached out to... I was still in prison. She reached out to my parents, so my dad and my step-mom, Christy. She reached out to them. She came off as a, uh, producer.

Javier: But Fancy wasn't a producer. Not technically. She never really produced anything. She was a background actress who wanted to break into the biz. And when Gypsy's story came around... she thought it could be her big break.

Speaker: That's why it's even more surprising that the Blanchards chose Fancy.

Fancy: So we... I went down. They were still in a contract with HBO, so I had to wait for six months before I could even go down and meet them, and I dr- So then the night that the, the thing expired, Kristy contacted me, told me that Gypsy and her had decided that I was the one they wanted to tell their story.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: And she wanted to create what, um, would later, like something similar to The Act, who knows The Act?

Fancy: So I went into this wanting to do a scripted series, much like The Act, who had not come out yet. So I was there before The Act even got made and done.

Javier: Which is amazing, right? Like,

Fancy: my producer.

Javier: 'cause this is like the biggest story, uh, that... I mean, this there is no bigger story

Fancy: bigger stories, and I had no idea what I was doing. I just fell into it. Like, I'm literally getting this call from Kristy, and I'm running into my job at TGI Fridays as a server,

Javier: did you tell about, like, what, what you would do and your experience?

Fancy: told them and I went down there, and I basically explained to them, I'm like, "Look, I can't promise that I can get this done, but because it's such a big story, and with your contacts and my contacts, I think we might be able to get this done." I'm working with them. I'm writing the pilot. We're pitching this thing. I had meetings at Netflix.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: and then a month goes by, two months go by, and it, it just wa- something was off. There was nothing that was being produced. So I got engaged to Ken,

Fancy: And so we just couldn't get any traction because people were telling me, "Well, by now the act has come out." And they're like, "Oh, the story's been done." And I'm like, "No, you've not heard the story this way." And this is before I realized what I was being told by everyone in this family was a lie. Um, so

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: and she was doing all these interviews, and it's kind of like, "I spoke to In Touch Weekly," and, and speaking for me, and doing all these media press junkets and stuff like this. And then you're promoting a project, a TV show, that doesn't exist. So after so, so much time went by and nothing was produced, I kinda started being wondering like, "I think this lady is a con artist. I don't think she is who she says she is. I... There's nothing to prove to me that she is a legit producer." She hasn't done anything.

Javier: No, no, even prior to that, like she-

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Even prior to that. She was, like, an extra in Boy Meets World, like, one time.

Javier: And just like that... Fancy's relationship with the blanchards went south. But they didn't just go their seperate ways. They went to war.

Fancy: I worked him for two and a half years before I realized, "Hey, something's not right here."

Speaker: INTROVO: Fancy Micelli, an actress, with almost no producing experience, all of a sudden held the keys to the biggest story of them all... The Gypsy Rose Blanchard case. She embeded herself with the family, they hand her all of Gypsy's private medical records, then they have a falling out. So what does she do with all these private documents? Does she return them to the Blanchards? No. Fancy decided to post some of gypsy's private medical records online, behind a pay wall. Revealling deeply personal procedures and treatments. This is the moment in the timeline where the Gypverse really took a whole new dimension. Suddenly, armed with these records, online critics galvanized against Gypsy. Inside these files, they say is proof that the narrative the media has been feeding us this whole time is false. They say these records show what was really happening to gypsy. And in those records, a never before publizied genetic condition, that Gypsy critics say explains everything and proves the Dee Dee Blanchard did not have munchausen by proxy.

Introvo: You're listening to the Gypsy Rose Obsession... I'm Javier Leiva and this is PRETEND... Stories about real people pretending to be someone else.

Speaker: ///AD BREAK///ACT

Onevo: Sure, Fancy Mecilli has been around enough film sets to walk the walk, and talk the talk... But how does a background actress, without any meaningful producing experience land one of the biggest true crime story in recent years? Every producer in hollywood must have been banging down the Blanchards door wanting a piece of the Gypsy pie. And how in the world did the Blanchards pick Fancy out of all of them? It doesn't make sense. I really wanted to know. So let's back up the story before their falling out.

Javier: And I'm sure you're condensing time, but like, what were those conversations like, and how did it end up with them saying, "Hey Fancy, we want you"?

Fancy: I explained to her who I was, what I do, why I was asking the questions, you know, and what I was looking for. Um, and she was very open to it, So I'm just gathering information at this point. And, um, she set me up with phone calls with Gypsy, and so I talked to Gypsy over the phone many times, Kristy calls me up and she's like, "Hey, today's the day." And I was like, "What's today the day?" And she's like, "It's the day our HBO contract ends, and Gypsy and I have decided that we'd really like you to come down here and meet us, you know, meet the family and, and, um, um, let's see what we can do."

Javier: But first thing's first, Fancy had to convince Gypsy to sign her life away. Literally. A life rights option is an agreement that grants Fancy and her producing partner, the exclusive, irrevocable right to purchase the media rights to an Gypsy's life story for a year. For whopping, get this, $10.00 payment to Gypsy. As part of the agreement, Fancy's production company was granted access to all of the Gypsy's medical records, court documents, and files. And if you read it carefully, it clearly says that Fancy was not obligated to actually produce or release any project. Fancy travels to lousiana and meet the family. During that trip, Kristy, Gypsy's step mom hands Fancy everything.

Speaker: medical recordsVO: A little flash drive. Here it is right here, this little flash drive. And, um, so I stuck this little flash drive in, and I took everything off the computer, and I went home with that.

Javier: Once I g- take over this, my t- staff, my medical staff, who happens to be Dee Dee's best friend, old best friend who is a nurse, wanted to help, so she started helping. Um, and she started helping us get more records. Not eactly a medical stuff. Just some people who have worked in the medical field. But we'll go with that. I'm consolidating time here... but things went off without a hitch... at least for a little while. Fancy was firmly on team Gypsy. From the time that Gypsy was born, there was nothing really medically wrong with her. She was fine except for a lazy eye, and there's nothing wrong with a lazy eye. Here's Fancy, talking to the Reelz Copy cat killer's television show. Dee Dee somehow, eventually, at that point, showed up with a wheelchair. now she's claiming she can't walk. She kept creating situations where Gypsy would get worse and worse, but nobody could verify it. If a doctor didn't agree with Dee Dee, Dee Dee found a new doctor. Back then, Fancy believed that Dee Dee Blanchard was medically abusing her child. You know, Munchausen by proxy. But then Fancy started noticing things that did't add up. Little stuff at first. This is around the time the relationship started to show cracks. And it all comes to a head over, of all things, a prescription pad. And Christy sends me this, this, uh, picture and she's showing me that under the bed they found this prescription pad. And I'm like, "No, that doesn't look like a prescription pad to me at all." So I put out a post asking the community, "Does this look like a prescription pad?" And she immediately began-- she turned on me in a second and started attacking me. The way Fancy tells it, she was blindsided. People working with Fancy started whispering in her ear.... and my OGs, the ones that were fighting with me in the original Facebook group that prompted me to message her in the first place, came to me and they said, "Hey, we think Christy Blanchard is playing you and she's done this to many people before and here's the proof." So I confronted her, and it turned into a really bad situation. Um, she made up lies about me, um, having an STD, cheating on my husband. Knowing all of this, my daughter's in the hospital having spinal surgery, you know, and she's doing all of this behind the scenes with another content creator, pitting her against me. And so that was the breaking point. But funny thing is, is not a couple weeks later, when I'm trying to dig into stuff, Christy comes to me and says, "Well, hey, um, we got more medical records, and I, I wanted to give them to you." And I go, "Does Gypsy know that you want to give me these records?" Because, I mean, Christy and I were still kind of like okay, But she gives them to me, and I'm just like, "This is an odd time to get these." You know? Like, I've just done things that you don't like. You're very angry with me, but now you wanna provide me medical records that I've been asking for for a long time and I wasn't getting.

Speaker: Releasing the files on patreonVO: So I put out some of, like, I, I think it's over 360 pages of it, which is nothing, okay? Look, I, I want you to understand, if you look, I have about seven of these, big-ass binders that have her medical records in them, and that's just the ones I printed out.

Javier: I put these out on Patreon. Now they're free, they're not, you don't have to pay for them anything. They're about 300 different ones that I put out, and a lot of it was something I found was the history from Louisiana, 'cause we never had any medical records from Louisiana.

Speaker: You heard right, she posted Gypsy's private medical records on Patreon. Yeah, the same place podcasters and youtubers post bonus episodes and give away stickers and tshirts. Medical records. And in case you're wondering... the files weren't always free. She originally posted them at the $30 month level.

Javier: And then realized that at one point they were behind a

Fancy: were not They were behind a paywall.

Javier: So tell me the,

Fancy: I originally put them behind a paywall. Um, and I said, "Hey, if you guys subscribe to this for three months, you know, you guys get to help us in deciding, you know, blabbity blah what we talk about and yada yada." And I did that because I didn't just want them everywhere, and I thought, "Hey, if I can make some money to make the documentary, then I'm using it in the way that it was intended to be used." And our contract shows that I had a right to do any of that,

Contractfancy: she knew that I was gonna put them behind the paywall.

Fancy: Um, but it was all because we were making the documentary.

Paywall Motives Explainedfancy: So it wasn't like I was trying to like, "Oh, I'm gonna get rich off of selling gypsies..." N- no. I had a goal. I wanna make this documentary,

Speaker: I asked Gypsy about this...

Javier: so back to Fancy.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Oh, boy.

Speaker: Okay.

Javier: So Fancy approaches your family. You're in prison, or jail. Yeah. Yeah. And- Well, prison at this point ... yeah. Prison. approaches your family. you're in prison, or jail. Yeah. Well, prison. at this Yeah.

Speaker: Oh, you were in prison. Yeah. And nothing's happening with this documentary.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Right.

Javier: And at some point you want, you want out. But your parents, not you, or who signed the documents?

Speaker: Um, my dad and my stepmom signed the, the contract So you're locked in, right? Mm-hmm. So we thought- And what happened? Yeah, just walk us through that. So the contract was, uh, a ChatGPT sort of created. It was not through lawyers. It was like a template almost. was a template. Um, so Fancy goes on to, um, threaten my dad and my stepmom that if, you know, we breach the contract, they'll lose the house, they'll lose everything. And I, I told Dad, I was like, "I think she's full of shit."

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Um, I'm taking a step back. I need to do what I need to do to prioritize my life at this point, and this woman has had all of three phone calls with me. The rest goes through y'all, and something is just not setting right with me. And so I break away. I block her on the tablet, the email system in prison. I don't call her. I don't have any communication with her. And having to kinda have my family break away too, my dad and my stepmom, and just trust me that I know that this doesn't feel right- um, was a leap of faith. And so they broke away too, and it's been years later, and when I tell you this lady has run herself crazy, just the obsession of the case and feeling like she missed out on an opportunity to be Erin Lee Carr, Melissa Moore, all these producers that went on to do documentaries with me.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Remember... all of this is happening and not a single frame of this television series or documentary was recorded.

Fancy Flipsjavier Leiva: So because you guys backed out-

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Mm-hmm ...

Javier: she flipped.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: She flipped, yes.

Javier: And what was

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: the result of that? The result of that was, so m- my stepmom and my dad gave her some information like, court case files, medical records My medical records that should have never left my parents' possession was then used against us.

Javier: What was, what was part of those records?

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: I mean, it wa- it was a lot of, of, like, hospital visit records, history and physical records, um, by the account of my mom. So it's like per mom, this is the diagnosises and all of this, the medica- list of medications. So a generalized, medical history And I never gave her permission. Well, she kind of did give her permission. But I guess Gypsy and her family never envisioned Fancy turning on them and posting it on the internet.

Lawsuitfancy: Gypsy and her family sued me in Missouri.

Fancy: In May 2024, Gypsy Rose Blanchard, along with her father Rod, stepmother Kristy, and stepsister Mia, filed a civil lawsuit against Fancy. The family says Fancy lied about her credentials. That she presented herself as a legitimate producer with real industry connections to get them to sign agreements. That she never delivered the media project she promised. That she refused to return their files. And that she made money off their story through paid subscriptions without ever compensating them. They want it all back. The files, the medical records, the legal documents. And they're also asking for damages, emotional distress, lost opportunities, and attorneys fees.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Um-

Javier: Do you think she actually

Speaker: to do this documentary? documentary? I think she intended to definitely try to put her name out in the, the spotlight- in whatever way she could. Um, but because of her lack of knowledge in the industry and lack of experience, I mean, I could call myself a producer today. Does that make me one? Right.

Javier: But Fancy defends her decision. She says these medical records put everything into perspective.

Fancy: It's pretty unremarkable once you actually sit down and put it all together. You're like, "This isn't at all what you've presented,

Javier: Well, let's talk about that actually, because I haven't had time to dig through that yet, what, what are, like, what's the greatest hits? Like, what did you find in there? were you nervous about posting sensitive medical private data on, on the internet, paid or not paid? What-- And what made you finally say, "Okay, this is worth the

Choosing Records To Refutefancy: 'Cause it was the only way to refute what Gypsy was saying. So I chose things that refuted lies. I didn't just dump her medical records out there. Like, I have thousands and thousands, and you saw I only put out about 300 pieces.

Fancy: I wasn't doing it maliciously. I was doing it as if, you know, this was all part of our documentary that we were putting together, you know? And so I put these things out there, and should I have put them behind a paywall? I don't know. I don't know if I should've at first.

Speaker: Like Fancy says, she only published a small number of medical records. But that was enough to set off an army of internet sleuths and arm chair medical experts. here's a tiktok posted by the content creator with the handle 'It's Ashley' talking about the medical records

It's Ashely: Oh, you wanna talk about medical records? Let's get into it, honey. We'll start here. This is Gypsy Rose before she ever left Louisiana. If you didn't know, she lived around her father, her stepmother, and her siblings for 14 fucking years. Right here she is ringing the bell because her tests came back. She's in remission from her fucking leukemia. Just in case you didn't know, you cannot fake leukemia. They're checking your white blood cell count and your hemoglobin. Also notice Gypsy has some bald spots up here. Squid, we gonna jump right into her feeding tube, honey. Gypsy Rose's weight has shown a increase, not a fucking decrease like her mama wasn't feeding her, an increase. Even with that feeding tube, she was underweight. Weight was that of a seven-year-old in 2004 when she was 13. Also, someone was coming to her fucking house, making sure feedings were going okay too, just so you know. Just a refresher, Gypsy Rose, right here, has microdeletion 1q21.1. Let's look at some of the things that her microdeletion caused: seizures, hypotonia, low muscle tone, which is all in her medical record. Dysmorphic facial features, all right here, honey. That's why she got that nose job. She also has admitted to having microcephaly. It's a small head. Eye problems, strabismus. We know she had that, honey. Her eyes been doing that since she was a baby. Hearing loss is also mentioned all through her medical records, and Gypsy, Gypsy actually gets accused of malingering by her doctor. Said Gypsy was giving false answers on the hearing test. These are some other things you may see: seizures, schizophrenia, gastro problems, urinary tract problems, which she probably had because she was accidentally peeing on herself when... or sh- you know, she could have been infantilizing herself, I'm just gonna tell you. So what did the internet find in these medical records? They say proof that this munchausen by proxy story was completely made up. We're going to dive into the medical records, atfter the break Also tells people, "Oh, we didn't have my Louisiana medical records." Right here, Mercy Hospital is requesting her records from Louisiana, and oh, look, there's her fake birthdays right there. Both the little spellings of her name. Gypsy has spun this shit like her mom had Munchausen when her mama was just stealing Medicaid, honey. Her mama was a scammer, a conner. Do you know who was lying about her symptoms? Gypsy. She told Nick in an email she had been lying to her mother since she was six years old. She had a seizure during a surgery. It caused temporary paralysis and, well, she didn't let her mama know she could walk until 2011 when she got caught running away with a man.

Paralysis Or Muscular Distrophyvo: There are videos of Gypsy in her wheelchair where you can clearly see her legs moving. And the argument goes: if Dee Dee genuinely believed her daughter was paralyzed from the waist down, how did she miss that? It's right there on camera.

Javier: But here's what else is in the record. The medical documents can't even agree on what was wrong with her. Some list flaccid diplegia, which is a condition where the muscles in the lower limbs are weak and floppy rather than rigid, basically meaning the legs work, just not well. Some say muscular dystrophy. Some say paralysis. So which is it? Pick one, because the doctors sure couldn't. And then there's this. Dr. Jean-Baptiste Le Pichon, the neurologist at Children's Mercy who examined Gypsy in 2009, noted something interesting. Dee Dee was telling him Gypsy had no sensation whatsoever below the waist. Complete paralysis. And yet when the doctor lightly touched Gypsy's lower limbs during the exam, she reacted. Her cardiovascular workups were normal. Her EKG was normal. Years of them. So the critics want you to believe that a 14-year-old gypsy was the mastermind behind all of this. That she fooled every doctor, every nurse, every social worker, and her own mother for years. That Dee Dee had absolutely no idea.

Cancervo: Her haters don't believe the munchausen claims... despite the evidence. But they do believe other conditions with not a lot of facts to back it up.

Javier: Gypsy really had cancer. She had leukemea.. Look at the FOIA docs, look at her medical records. And I did. Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia. Also called Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia. The ALL (leukemia) claim is real, but it's 100% Dee Dee's oral history, not a documented diagnosis. Here's exactly what the record says, in a May 15, 2007 History and Physical from Children's Mercy, written ahead of a scheduled ear tube procedure: "She was treated for ALL at five years old for one year and has been in remission since." That sentence appears in the Past Medical/Surgical/Birth History section, and the informant listed at the top of that same record is: "Biological mother." It's a cancer of the blood and bone marrow. It affects lymphocytes, which are a type of white blood cell. "Acute" means it progresses fast. It's actually the most common childhood cancer, and it's one of the more treatable ones, especially in kids. Survival rates are high when caught and treated early. It leaves a paper trail: oncology records, chemotherapy logs, hospital admissions, follow-up bloodwork, bone marrow tests. If Gypsy actually had leukemia at age five and underwent a year of treatment, there would be extensive documentation somewhere. here is none in anything you have. And notably, the Children's Mercy blood work from March 2011 that you already have shows nothing oncological. Hemoglobin slightly low at 11.6, otherwise unremarkable. That's not what you'd typically see in a leukemia history that was being monitored. So Dee Dee told a nurse her five-year-old had leukemia, the nurse wrote it down, and it became part of the permanent record. That's it. Unless i'm missing something, Based on the specific hematology report dated Mar 02, 2011, from Children's Mercy Hospitals & Clinics, this white blood cell (WBC) count of 9.96 x10(3) mcL falls entirely within the standard reference range of 4.50–11.00 x10(3) mcL. Because it is a normal result, it does not provide a clinical indication of an active infectious, inflammatory, or leukemic process.1 A review of the case files and medical history reveals that there is absolutely no documented clinical evidence of leukemia. The appearance of the term in the records is linked strictly to a history of fabrication and legal claims rather than an actual medical diagnosis: Clinical Lack of Evidence: In an interview regarding the case, it was confirmed that Gypsy did not actually receive chemotherapy. While her mother, Dee Dee Blanchard, claimed to give her a "chemo pill," Gypsy never underwent genuine cancer treatment.1 Fabrication and Abuse: A verified legal petition filed on behalf of the family formally establishes that Dee Dee began reporting during Gypsy's childhood that she suffered from myriad severe conditions, explicitly listing "Leukemia" alongside muscular dystrophy and paraplegia.2 The

Investigative Discovery: Following the death of Dee Dee Blanchard, criminal discovery and subsequent investigations revealed publicly for the first time that these ailments were entirely fabricated. Medical experts reviewing the case agreed that Gypsy was the victim of severe medical abuse under the auspices of Munchausen by Proxy.

Javier: Questions remain... if Gypsy didn't have cancer, then how could she be allowed to stay at the ronald mcdonald house.

Tiktok Wars And Court Fightjavier Leiva: All right, now let's, you, you mentioned earlier that when you joined TikTok, it's been a nightmare ever since. And I think I know some of it, but I'm not sure if I know all of it. I'd love to hear it from your, your point of view

Fancy: I have lost countless accounts from being mass reported by Gypsy's people, and they've admitted to that. They know that they, they did it. Gypsy did it. They did it. Um, Gypsy put out, right after she came out, she put out a, a message to all of her, you know, closest, dearest friends on Facebook, um, to de-platform me, that I had, I had harassed them, stalked them, I'd posted false information about them, that I'm a scam artist and a liar and blah, blah, blah, and I need to be de-platformed on all platforms. So I started getting attacked on all platforms. And, um, there's just been a lot of drama within this community that started out of this TikTok community. Um, and it goes well beyond anything with just me. Constantly, I mean daily, they are all up there on panels every day arguing with each other, screaming at each other, fighting. They contact people's work. They try to get people fired. They try to break up marriages. They... I mean, it's insane what

Javier: Yeah, it is. And that,

Fancy: never seen anything like this.

Speaker: MICRODELETIONFancy: I had my girl Colleen and several other nurses who had gone over this.

Fancy: So I contact Colleen after I get off with this guy and I said, "Hey, do you remember when we-- when Titania found that chromosome disorder?" And she goes, "Yeah." And I said, "Could you please look at that one more time?" And within 10 minutes she calls me back and she's like, "Oh my God, Fancy, she has this microdeletion." And I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" And she's like, "No, I'm not kidding you." And she's like, "Fancy, everything that she had done, I mean everything that was done, is all connected to the 1q21.1 microdeletion that she has."

Javier: a lot of people in the anti-Gypsy community have pretty much said, "Aha, that's why Dee Dee was taking her to the doctor so much. That explains everything." But, does it? Does it explain everything?

Fancy: It does explain everything.

Javier: So like the feeding tube, the leukemia, the, the paralysis.

Fancy: of it. All of it. when the FOIAs came out, because he f- he went through his last appeals, even at the federal level. So, you know, that's where this information came from. So back in the day, I was grasping at straws. I had lots of things I believed, but I couldn't prove any of it 'cause I didn't have it. You know, and in this documents, these, these 111 videos, Gypsy admits to Nicholas on camera that she faked the paralysis for over 13 years, lied to her mother, to doctors, and all of her friends and family, that she did it. She had a seizure at six years old, which we verified, um, and that from the seizure she re- experienced temporary paralysis and that she decided that she liked the attention and thought mama loved her more when she was sick, so she decided to stay into this chair for all these years and she lied to everybody. So it's kind of like the perfect storm. There was like a little girl who decides, "Oh, I really like attention and I crave attention," which is a big thing with Gypsy Rose, "and how do I... Well, Daddy doesn't want anything to do with me, and Mama loves me more when I'm sick and I get all these things and I get to go do stuff and I go all over, all over the place.

Speaker: Genetics Deep Dive 1q21Fancy: I'm just gonna sit my butt in this wheelchair for 13 years and not tell anybody." But in 2011 is when they discover the microdeletion.

Fancy: So all these years from nineteen ninety-one, I believe it's-- Yeah, nineteen ninety-one when Gypsy is born, all the way to two thousand and eight, they don't even have a name for this thing. They don't even know what it is. So the doctors were running the legitimate test trying to figure out what the problem is.

Speaker: Point to one actual piece of evidence of abuse when we know she had a genetic fucking disorder that lines up with every single person that has the same rare neuromuscular disorder as she does, strabismus, the cross-eyed, swallowing issues, failure to thrive, small weight, eating issues, intermittent muscle weakness, uh, mental delay because, and psychosis in adulthood. Like, it's like check, check, check, check,

This Is Fraudamber: Just from personal experience I know that I liked a little bit of the attention that I

Amber: got when I was sick or I needed help or whatever I think it's only natural for a kid in that environment that grows up like that to probably appreciate some of the perks and some of the attention that come with it, um, and just to get used to it I don't think she re really ever even at least not until much later in life I I don't think she really even saw herself as grifting I think it's just the way that it was, and that she kinda played it up But I don't, I don't really even know if she even like fully was aware of the fact that she was playing it up. Uh- Do you think?

Alaura: Oh, yeah, totally. as soon as she lands in Missouri, she's mentally delayed and in a wheelchair all the time and the report says that Gypsy was mentally delayed Like it actually talks about her being mentally deficient, mentally handicapped, something along those lines. everybody in Springfield has said that she acted mentally delayed and that Dee Dee acted very simple But when you talk to the people in Louisiana, Dee Dee was smart, ruthless, and able to pull off a long con like, like this And I think Gypsy was just able to pull off a long con like this as well. I think it just became natural to her. When her and her mom moved to Missouri they got a fresh start and, uh they liked the attention that they were getting from being on the news and Hurricane Katrina survivors, and they just kept going with it

Gypsy On Fraudjavier Leiva: You know, I think a, another thing that your critics would say is that they're like, "This is not a Munchausen by Proxy case. This is a, a fraud- Mm ... that both Dee Dee and Gypsy were in on it." Mm.

Javier: You know? Yeah. Gypsy got a lot of free trips to Disney World. Gypsy got a lot of free gifts from strangers. Mm-hmm. Gypsy got to a f- a house. Mm-hmm. You know, um, at what point did you realize that- The attention that you were getting for these, you know, health problems were actually rewarding you in some way.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Like- Honestly, I never really knew too much about the specifics of, like, what Make-A-Wish was and stuff like that. For me, it was, you know, from chi- early childhood, my mom always rewarded me with toys. So it was like if you stay quiet, be a good girl, that meant play with your dolls, you know, play with your dolls and toys while she spoke to the doctor in the room. We would go and get a toy afterward. And so, like, I thought I was just being a good girl and behaving. Um, I didn't know that there was that manipulation behind it.

Javier: Ever?

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: No, no. Like, early childhood- Ear- early ... I didn't know ... obviously. Obviously. 'Cause you're a

Javier: kid, yeah.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: And then later on in my teen years, that's when it, it kinda becomes like, "Okay, I understand that Mom is gonna be mad at me if I go against her, so I'm still gonna do as she says because sh- her word is final," right? But there was no part that I ever felt like, "Okay, she's manipulating the system and I'm gonna help you do it." There was never,

Javier: ever- Ever? Not even in later years?

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Not even in later years.

Javier: Because I think another incident that people point to is that when you were 22 years old- Mm-hmm ... you accepted money from a cancer society, and money that could have gone to, like, a kid or somebody who really did need it.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Mm-hmm.

Javier: Um, and even at 22 that-

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: No money was coming to me. It was all going to my mom.

Javier: Okay.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: So my mom handled the finances. My mom handled everything. Because even at 20- 22, you have to understand that she was telling people that I was, like, 15 years old.

Javier: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: real ageGypsy Rose Blanchard (2): So a lot of the people in Springfield didn't know my real age.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: Hmm. And I even believed that I was younger, because I, I, I would ask her, you know, throughout the years. She would knock down a few years off my age, and every time that she would do that, I would be like, "Well, am I not turning 16?" And then her response to that was like, from the car accident, she had a head injury, she doesn't remember, and then make me feel bad because I'm trying to correct her and she'd start to cry. And so it's, it's like all this emotional stuff that gets tied into it. So- You know, there was the people that knew my real age were back in Louisiana, and that was people like family.

Javier: And at this point, you're in Missouri.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: And we're in Missouri. We're in a completely s- different state. So everybody around us, she can just say she's whatever age.

Nancy Simpsonnancy Simpson: Gypsy and Dee Dee would come to the station and get tickets and they would show up at our tent on concert day and get free tickets to the concerts I do have that one memory where it was a Keith Urban concert And I just remember her in her Tshirt and the poster and um I remember bending down with her in her wheelchair and I'm not proud of this Javier but I was like Oh you look so pretty Did you make that shirt yourself Look at your pink boots you know Because in mind she was mentally disabled That's how she presented herself She presented herself as 12 or 13 years old they were in the community and people knew who they were

Speaker: HBO Doc Mommy Dead and Dearest: A very good liar without any conscience She taught me how to be a good liar, a very good liar without any conscience And I'm changing that. I'm trying to be a good person now. I don't wanna be like my mother, and I'm nothing like her Was Gypsy Complicit in the fraudJavier Leiva: a lot of the criticism that this anti-Gypsy community has is that Gypsy seemed like she was a participant in some of fraud, where she would, um, maybe play up childlike behavior, uh,

Andrea Dunlop: And it's interesting to me though that peop- that the same people are making both of these arguments, right? That her mother was not abusive, and also that she was participating in it. So I don't know how you can sort of have it both ways. and this is to me victim-blaming, right? When a person is, regardless of whether or not they are over 18, um, if they are a young adult and they are still living with that perpetrator and they've never had a chance to be separated from that perpetrator, then their culpability for their actions in that situation, I think should be pretty measured. So she knew this was a ruse, right? That's very complex in an abuse situation because maybe the child knows something is up. They know what their role is. They've been put in this role since they were a baby. They know that their job is to uphold this big charade.

Javier: I interview con artists. That's my, my niche. And you cannot take their word for granted. Uh, um, you cannot take their word at face value because they're unreliable narrators, right? And I feel like this story, what makes it so interesting is that there are so many unreliable narrators. So what... It's not just Gypsy,